OT: munk - Why a 10MM?

Hellrazor... they are held by the extractor, go bang just fine. Just a larger-than-usual freebore before the bullet gets to the rifling. Note I have never done this myself :D. Get a 40 short&weak barrel if you are going to do it alot, but it can be done without drama. Check out the 10mm board of Glocktalk.com, there is talk about it there.

Edit: Here's one discussion . Looks more negative than I thought. Oh well, be careful.

Pen, I've been reloading for about 3 years, but my production is pretty small since I haven't been able to get shooting as often as I used to. Only about 2,500 rounds on the books, all 10mm. Just before I moved, I re-setup the press (Dillon 650) for .45ACP, but never produced any. While it is a potentially (mildly-to-somewhat) dangerous operation from a number of points of view, it is not particularly complex, and the results are worth it. Custom tailored ammo, at pretty much bargain prices, discounting the time it takes (and you don't really save money, you just get to shoot more). From my engineers perspective, I also just enjoy working the machine and the time spent is enjoyable by itself, just another hobby. If I was cranking out 1,000 rounds per night I might think differently, though :cool:
 
I'll blaspheme here and state for the record that I traded my Colt Officer's ACP for a factory refurbished Glock 17. [Now you see why I've disabled my reputation feature :p]

I've been handloading for about six or seven years. I've got dies for all my rifle calibers but I primarily load .44 mag and .270 Win.
 
I would personally switch to a .40 barrel if shooting from a Glock 20 or 29. The 10mm is an extremely versatile round, from 135 grain low-penetration defensive or varmint rounds up to 200 grain penetrators for deer and hog.
 
Got to fire a 10mm auto once and really liked it- but I had an H&K 45 at the time and couldn't afford another pistol. It wasn't a Glock- I think it was a Sig?
Sadly it was owned by a fool who left a round chambered in it for so long that it "rusted and jammed in the barrel" according to him, and he had to leave it with a gunsmith (presumably for a new barrel).
 
Semper Fi,

If you’re going to be reloading and building a pistol from scratch I think you should give consideration to a 1911 in .45 ACP/.451 Detonics/.45 Super.

The best method is call Caspian and order a fitted frame and slide. Good quality, cheaper to get options you’re going to want and they already have small diameter (9mm/.38 Super) firing pin hole. If not using a Caspian slide then shorten a good firing pin and correctly profile for a tighter fit.

Add 28 lbs. recoil spring, and heavy duty main and firing pin springs. Then take a Commander style ejector and shorten it halfway. You have just created a .45 Super/.451 Detonics.

You can still shoot ball and +P w/o mods. For mid-range swap to a lighter recoil spring.

For brass call up Star and order some .45 Super brass, easier and cheaper than modifying .308, 30-06, etc.

I have found that the best bullet is the 185 gr. FMC semi-wadcutter match bullet from either Sierra or Win. I found out accidentally is superior to all the 185 JHPs on coyote and jacks. It does better than anything else on deer. My premise is that it is accurate and at 1400+ FPS it cuts better holes and does more damage w/o coming apart. At 1200 it is superior to the H&G 68 at the same velocity though it gives up 15 grains of mass.

Either way have fun.

S/F, FOG
 
Be advised that some states require expanding bullets for deer- check your local game laws.

John
 
For those who like the C&R's, the Czech CZ-52's are available for $99.00 plus or minus a few bucks in 7.62X25 from AIM/Centerfire Systems/SOG/and Century Arms Int'l..

This is one screaming round and these pistols are a real bargain.They were made in 1952/53/and 54 and are in like new,rearsenaled, unissued condition --with and extra 8 round mag, holster and cleaning rod.

I shot,for comparison purposes, three different calibers--- into some telephone books a few days ago and the results were:
1-.44 Special penetrated 2 inches
2-9mm Luger HP penetrated 4 inches
3-CZ-52---7.62X25 penetrated 8 1/2 inches.

An aggressive ,adrenaline pumped target, might not realize it has been hit until several minutes later and the round will likely pass through unless it hits bone--- but like a sharp Kuk, the effects will be awesome.

For the price, they make a great under the dash, stash, backup weapon. I suspect there's enough velocity/energy to put this round up in the .357 magnum plus category.
 
The CZ-52 fires a very capable round. Unlike virtually all other centerfire firearms, it will not take kindly to dry-firing.

Trust me. ;)

John
 
Spectre said:
The CZ-52 fires a very capable round. Unlike virtually all other centerfire firearms, it will not take kindly to dry-firing.

Trust me. ;)

John
Click to expand...

Sounds like the voice of experience talking.

If it happened to you, can you tell me at what point the pin broke? Was it the front of the pin that strikes the primer or somewhere along the shaft?


I saw on one of the forums where one fella dry fired two of his 52's a couple thousand times each with no broken firing pin then another fella snapped his once or twice and his broke.

Sounds like there was a poorly tempered batch that got into the weapons.

I bought a couple of replacements just in case from J&G Sales for $9.95 each. These are made here in the U.S.
 
cb,

My CZ-52 broke with only two or three dry-fires. I'm not sure where the break occurred- I was waiting to dissasemble until I had the money for the replacement pin...but I traded the CZ for work done on my room-mate's computer.

More info on CZ here.

John
 
Hi John. I was more interested when I thought it was a straight walled cartridge. Why would I want to go to all the trouble of a bottle neck?

I have too many to reload for now.

I will admit, for a 100 bucks, a bottleneck might be worth a little trouble. I see this as a decent pocket pistol and gopher getter. The Richardson's ground squirrels up here are universally disliked and a source of target practise. I'm not sure why- the usual holes and mounds. They'll eat their own dead- seems to be a taboo across species lines.

munk
 
I just checked the ballistics- 1371 fps for the Speer plinker. I know the plinker- having used it for ground squrrels in the 32/20 well beyond that. (32/20 single shot)

While I wouldn't volunteer to be hit with one it does seem less than lethal- despite the muzzle energy of nearly 400 foot pounds. I see either a drilling- with a hard cast, or a surface splatter on clothing and flesh- messy but not final. If you drilled them in the right spot it would be all over- but the point of a defensive handgun is being able to stop without having to shoot them through the heart or between the eyes.

Very interesting though. A hundred bucks....

munk
 
The coolest thing about the CZ-52 is the cheap surplus ammo that will penetrate like the dickens.

It "might" even penetrate some stuff that only rifle cartridges usually penetrate, at least at fairly close ranges.

I have seen incredibly cheap surplus ammo in 7.62x25mm. I have also seen some targets hit by the little .32. (.311, actually, but aren't they all? ;) )

John
 
John,

I have just checked the regs on caliber and any power requirements before. I remember the 1st year Ca. allowed handgun hunting of deer, the only limitation was that it had to be centerfire w/o any other restrictions. A .25 auto would have been legal.

I didn’t notice anything in the Tx regs but only perused them. No. problems in either of the Carolinas, Ca., or a couple of other states.

On a practical matter it is more effective than any of the JHPs I’ve tried, though haven’t given the XTPs, Barnes, or Gold Dots a workout.

S/F, Mike
 
Munk- no.

Fog,

That may be. GA says, ".22-cal or larger centerfires with expanding bullets." (There used to be a ft-lbs limitation on handguns.)

...actually, CA (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fg_comm/2003/mammalflyer.pdf) says "Pistols and revolvers using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding bullets may be used to take deer, bear and wild pigs."

There you have it. In my experience, XTP's, Gold Dots, and Federal EFMJ all show adequate penetration and expansion to take deer at reasonable ranges, from decent calibers.

John
 
John,

Using the old Speer 200 gr. Flying ashtray, 185 gr. Sierra and Hornady, and 185 gr. Silvertip (yes you used to occasionally get them in bulk as reloading components) worked at regular and maybe +P velocities but didn’t hold together too well. The 260 Gr. Speer was accurate enough but just didn’t seem to do well.

The 200 gr. # 68s w/7.0-7.5 gr. Unique did alright but I couldn’t drive them faster than approx. 1000-1050 fps w/o excessive leading and lack of accuracy.

I know Ca. laws have changed in regards to caliber. Prior to the legalization of handgun hunting .25 center fire was the minimum allowed. Some of u guessed that those passing the law didn’t know what anything about the subject (yes I know you are shocked and appalled that our elected officials would pass legislation on something they know nothing about J) and so just inserted center fire handgun. If you looked at the regs that year, 198?, it still listed .25 caliber center fire under the rifles as the minimum.

Are cast lead bullets considered expanding under the Ga. statues?

Truthfully I don’t have the time to experiment/work-up a load. I haven’t had time to set-up my reloading stuff (and go trough to get a good inventory of damaged stuff from storage/moving). If I purposely go after deer, hog, etc., w/a handgun I’ll use a .44 w/XTPs in a factory load as it works on both deer and hog.

S/F, Mike
 
Folks, if I were to get a 10 mm, I would get a double action revolver in it. With half moon clips it will shoot .40s well too. I do not know if S & W discontinued their double action in this round but I have seen them in the gun shop. They do make the Model 925 revolver in .45 ACP.

For deer a good formula in a traditional short handgun round is to get as close as possible to "at least .40 caliber, at least 1000 f.p.s., and at least 200 grains of bullet, bullets in hunting configuration."

Some rounds like the .357 will kill deer fine with perfect shot placement and are not fully in this category. The .40 S & W is in this first bunch. Me thinks you can handload it with a 200 grainer to good performance. So with the 10mm.

Some like the .44 Magnum and .451 Casull are alreadly there in factory ammo.

Some, like the 44-40, 38-40, .45 Colt, .44 Special and .45 A.C.P. can be handloaded to this level.


Chris
 
Chris, though a revolver in 10mm would be fun, there is no real reason to want one as I own 3 41's now, and they can do anything and more than the 10.

The 10's forte is in a semi auto, where such power is rare in a carryable sidearm.


munk
 
Mike,

Though you and I know better, I don't think any game warden would have an issue with hard cast bullets...(notice the "softnose" wording on the CA statute?) Yeah, we know they don't expand...do they?

John
 
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