OT Rant; Why I dislike HK Firearms

I had a DR 200 (Daewoo) for a while. It was nice.

I traded it for a Glock 24. Now the DR goes for about 50% more than I paid for it.

I like the idea of the Galil. The Israeli Special Forces site- link earlier in thread- complains of the weight. I have heard this complaint from my friend and sometimes firearms trainer (and civilian military employee) Edmund Rowe...who turned me onto Blade Forums, yay many years ago. :) Edmund has a nice little collection, including accurized M1a and Galil.

The Mini Assault Rifle, now...that's just cool. Since it'd be an import, I'm sure I'll never get one before I make my first million. The new Kel-Tec SU-16D, on the other hand...the $200 tax stamp isn't as stiff, relatively speaking, as it was in the late '30s, and I feel a need to have a SU-16D12 and quick detach suppressor.

John, smilies all 'round. :D
 
munk,
Shot the SIG220 sweet 45 turned a friend on to it ,he loved it,whereever he was deployed & jumped he carried it & extra ammo! I had a SIG 225 long time ago(got it new in the box for $300).I got rid of it(made $$$)it jammed &would rust like crazy!
THE DUCK! :cool:
PS-TSK,TSK,Munk,the SIG 220 is "GERMAN" & IT AIN'T CHEAP !! hee,hee!
THE DUCK! :cool:
 
munk said:
Richard Allen:

Richard Allen, if you read all of Pan Tau's post you would see that it is not a devisive one. I feel you have in particular drawn out those features you found most offensive in my writing that he refers to, and have 'run with them'. This does not help either. The gist of my posts were simply it makes no sense for an industrialized nation with it's own weapon's industry to buy HK. By your reaction one would think we had three pages of German Bashing, and such is not the case.
...
As this thread was about weapons, I apologize to you both I did not pay as much attention to Andreas's post as I would have liked. As always, he raises good points.

munk
Click to expand...

Oh well, it wouldn't be HI Forums if we didn't go OT, would it ;)

anyhow, a few things I'd like to mention, cause I am afraid we might have misunderstanding here.

-I dont recall drawing out any features of your post. maybe something got my attention, sorry if this was the case. actually, I was not even 'running with' Andreas' statement, cause I just had a quick look at his post. basically, it was just your statement that irritated me.

-I think you overestimated my reaction. reading stuff and acutally talking to someone are way different. written language can be quite complicated.

-i realize what this was about, and that there weren't three pages of german bashing. maybe i am just very sensitive. I remember times here on BF were you couldn't even disagree with a political opinion cause you'd immidiately be labeled as a eurotroll.

-frankly, i dont care what contracts germany has/had with whom. you're probably even right. still, i'm pretty sure that every nation will only do something [insert *any* political action] if they believe they can get something out of it. whatever it be - you name it. nobody's innocent.

-last but not least, you can bash the german politicians as long as you want. i dont agree with the current politics, but that's what you get in a democrazy.

we should all just remember not to confuse a countries people with their politics.

regards & no hard feelings,

Keno (which is my real name, that's why I sign my post with it. richardallen is just a nickname ;))
 
munk: I thought your original post in this thread objected to a phrase of mine without being particularly divisive. I liked that.
Click to expand...

And you were right. We agree on how a military should choose their manufactures - we disagree on the US-German relations. I think they are better than you think.

munk: Most Historians agree Germany had the most advanced weapons of WWll- overall. The metalurgy was historically great in Germany. I don't know that means they have any claim to make the best weapons today. The language of science was once German- any serious student had to be familiar with the language. That is not true today.
Frankly, we get into 'controversial' territory here- that of race, society and culture. Germany never ruled the world, but was always sandwiched between threats. Weapons have a role.
Click to expand...

That´s what I meant when I said German ingenieurship (not only when it comes to weapons) is not what it used to be. We may enter the controversial territory of society (sure) and culture (maybe as the christian-occidental culture that used to connect the US and Europe seems to vanish) - but not of race - I do not see a German or American race.

As always I like the discussions here. We get to the point - and although I disagree with some statements or politics I have never been called an Eurotroll (this is neither W&C - where Larry B started the "Eurotrash-thread" - nor the political arena.) This is the Cantina and we know how to discuss in a civilized way.

Andreas
 
I'm interested, Cliff. The 1911ers on most boards just say "use Wilson mags" and I imagine they are pricey.
 
The first rule of thumb in analysing a jam is always look to the mag.

But standard mil mags don't jam in my 1911 unless I limp wrist the shooting. I've seen Smiths bend the bottom plate lip- not the top feeding lips.

<<<anyway, I am sorry that you are completely dismissing Pan Tau's post. Statements like yous do certainly not help easing up tension. It's a sad thing; I love the USA, but sometimes reading on those forums (bladeforums in general) can be a very hard thing.>>>>>>> Richard

Here we see the grain of debate- your assertion I ever dismissed Pan Tau's post. This is where my response comes from to you. Actually, as this was a weapons thread, I had too much else on my mind to respond to Andreas, not actually a deliberate 'dismissal'.

Pan Tau strikes at the heart of humanity and nationality- self interest. There is nothing remarkable about nations wanting the 'best deal' to serve their own interests. I don't happen to think buying HK serves the US.

As for Race, society, and culture- I'm sure I don't understand why one nation becomes known for accomplishments in some areas and not others.

munk
 
I looked it up. 'dismissed' was probably the wrong word. 'missed out' would've been more appropriate. ain't always easy. I assume we'd be better of talking in german. maybe we should ;-)

as for the rest, the german army is using HK weapons. I don't see any reason why the US Army shouldn't use US made weapons. We have an agreement about that.

@andreas - never been called anything in HI Forums as far as I recall. That's why I wrote BF in general.

I hope this is settled now.

regards, Keno :)
 
Mr.BadExample said:
I'm interested, Cliff. The 1911ers on most boards just say "use Wilson mags" and I imagine they are pricey.
Click to expand...

Yo, Mr BE, In my experience switching to Wilson mags ALONE often cures some pretty weird malfunctioning problems. After seeing this happen a good number of times, I broke down and bought a Wilson pistol. I had to trade off three other firearms to do it, but the pistol is worth every penny. The slide rides on the frame as on Timpkin roller bearings; puts me in mind of the way an old Krag bolt action feels....but that might mean nothing to some of the younger troops. The last two Wilson mags I bought this year cost me around $31 each, as I remember. Good investment....If Wilson mags don't fix it, be prepared to trade it off, or pay the gunsmith and wait...
 
I just checked- the mag that DOES NOT WORK in my Colt Delta Elite is the Wilson. And it jams with Factory Ammo, too.

Before I paid 35 bucks a mag I'd sure be bending 8 dollar mags to fit. My military mags work. I don't know what the problem is here.


munk
 
I've got an HK USP .40

Great gun. Fires silky smooth, but is a tad bulky to carry (Though I have and do successfully). I shoot the government model .45 better.

I don't own a gov. model .45.


nuts. :grumpy:
 
I can shoot my Para-Ord 9mm almost like it's full-auto at close range (and actually hit the target :rolleyes: ).

I have a 9x23mm barrel and increased power springs, but haven't gotten around to ordering ammo yet. If I can use it with anything approaching the speed of the 9x19...well, a double-stack 1911 with .357 power*. YUM! :D

John

*124 grain at around 1500 fps
 
*124 grain at around 1500 fps>>>>

I think that leaves the Sig 357 behind also. That's an awful lot of splatter.


munk
 
OH, yeah, it does. It's squarely in .357 Mag category, at least as usually loaded.

Yes, I know the Mag has been wussified since inception. How could it not, and be fired in J frames?!

John
 
munk said:
I just checked- the mag that DOES NOT WORK in my Colt Delta Elite is the Wilson. And it jams with Factory Ammo, too.

Before I paid 35 bucks a mag I'd sure be bending 8 dollar mags to fit. My military mags work. I don't know what the problem is here.


munk
Click to expand...

"The problem" is simply one of different experiences with similar equipment. I suspect that's why reloading manuals have different loads and velocities. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 
Oh, I don't disagree Wilson mags are good, but I disagree Military mags are bad.

You have a hundred years of military mags. Granted, most that service was in 230 gr hardball, but if there was a problem the 1911 would not have a rep for reliability. With a few simple bends, the military mags can be made to deliver soft and hollow points. ANd mags do wear out- I'd rather pay for the standard issue. Maybe if I were a policeman I wouldn't bother- and go for top of the line.


munk
 
munk said:
Oh, I don't disagree Wilson mags are good, but I disagree Military mags are bad.

Maybe if I were a policeman I wouldn't bother- and go for top of the line.


munk
Click to expand...

As always, Munk, you have a talent for getting to the heart of the issue. Anybody who kicks in doors for a living is, literally, betting his sweet bippy on his equipment working first time, every time. One then tends to spend more, and sleep better, and believe it or not, often with the wife's full and complete blessing. I am, distinctly NOT throwing rocks at anyone else's choice of equipment. I might also comment that God, in His infinite wisdom, knew I was hopelessly incompetent as a fix-it, and so gave me a job where I could break things for a living... :footinmou
 
Yeah, and there's that too: I don't recall Police Work being known for all the leisure time at home you get. There are lots of folks like me who enjoy reloading and tinkering. But if my time was limited, then spending an afternoon with a new lot of military mags to test each one and make sure they were reliable might not be on my list. Spend a little over a hundred bucks every once in awhile and have mags that are going to work.

Course, everything fails; mags, guns, bullets, people, patrol cars, Dispatchers, Ambulance drivers, HI mods...it's a susceptable universe!


munk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top