OT The Bronze Age Iceman....

Kismet

Kismet

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has always fascinated me. Otzi, as he is currently referred to, is the cadaver of a bronze age man some 5300 years old, which was found in the Austrian/Italian Alps by hikers during a period of unusual warmth and melting of the Glacier ice.

He had a flint knife, a yew bow, a few arrows and the makings for others, grass-fiber filled garments, and initially was believed to have died of hypothermia while sheltering himself from an unexpected storm.

There were several preliminary books done on him, and a PBS video program.

I've always felt a kinship with him for some reason. It may have been the knife and bow, or the sense of continuity of mankind...not sure really.

Recent continued research and examination of Otzi have revealed an arrow-head lodged in his back, angling down and stopping short of his lung. Somehow this saddens me.

But it doesn't surprise me. Humans breed and kill better than they do anything else (except, perhaps, rationalize behaviors.) OF COURSE this marvelous vestige of earlier humanity would have been murdered. What was I thinking?

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/iceman/iceman.html
 
I saw that on the History channel a few years back. What an amaizing find! And to be murdered? Sorry for the guy, but it is sorta cool. A 5300 year old killing. (Could have been a murder, but he may have been a robber on one of the mountain trails and got what was coming to him. Of course people are pack animals....hmmm???)
 
I also saw this program on the History Channel and have read about the ice man in one of my Anthropology classes. One of the things that really fascinated me was his tatoos. From what I understood tatoos held some important pain relieving properties to ancient man. The ice man had many vertical lines on each side of his spine and near his joints. I also read in my Anthropology text book that he had some form of parasite in his intestines and that he was not in very good physical condtion, ie. malnutrition. Very interesting stuff!
 
yep the 5ooo year old man certainly makes you think, i wish we could look back into history and actualy see what happened to this individual, but the facts are he was slashed by a rough flint knive,on the hand ,a defensive type wound,sliceing through tendons and immmoboliseing his thumb.
he was also shot in the shoulder,with an arrow, it would seem he was in a fight with one or more persons,i think he was probably shot with the arrow then attacked by a knife wielding apponent probably closeing in for the kill to finish him off. i suspect his attacker or attackers,got the worst of the fight, as otzi was able to flee after the fight,and up into the hills he went to try and evade further trouble.there he died from his wounds and possably the cold.
the reasons for thinking he got the better of the fight are that he still possessed his weapons a fine axe, yew bow, knife and all his equipment. which if he had lost the fight and been killed would have been taken from him. so at least his last fight would have been i think a victory of sorts, denying his enimies the spoils.
but what caused the fight was it a stolen wife ? , a quarrell over land, property, or was he ambushed by thieves ??. we will never know but what a find a 5000year old warrior frozen in time.:confused: :)
 
I've seen a couple of programs on him which does not make me an authority but interesting stuff to be sure.
 
Also included beer, and a rudimentary med kit that included mushrooms. Must've been one heckuva party!

The arrowhead-- Idunno if we're not reading a "Violent encounter" into what could have been a "hunting accident" or "Fall with quiver of sharp arrows tumbling with you".

Speaking from personal hunting exp here. I was about 14, out bowhunting deer with dad. I had a 2x8 board, 28 inches long, with v-cuts at either end. Climb a tree, stick that in between the crook of two big branches, and -voila! instant treestand. Anyhow, I got up there and had an arrow nocked, waiting,,,watinng,,,sleeping. I wake up in mid air, broadheaded arrow with razor tip is tumbling just in front of me thru the air. It landed point down in the ground, luck of the rotation, and me right next to it. I was pretty startled, gave the old man a scare. fell about 12 feet onto leaves and mud. What a wakeup call that was.

anyhow, he had broken arrows, and perhaps a tip would be difficulet to remove, and onnly the shaft remained.

I like historical whodunits.

Keith
 
i love Otzi...

always been an armchair anthropologist.

the tattoos may have been a treatment for arthritis, stimulating the affected areas. the tattoo sites all correspond to high strain areas, and not the typical 'decorative' areas of other cultures. but if you saw the Discovery show, i think they mentioned that.

bummer about the murder. i guess humans are simply what they are. for better or worse.

M
 
Fascinating story. After I read about Otzi this afternoon, I was out chopping ice in front of the house. I was thinking about his axe which is a good looking weapon, but made with a copper head. Probably the height of technology at the time. Thinking this ice chopper I'm using is incredibly tougher, with its steel head. I slammed it down with full strength several hundred times into 6" thick ice with no damage to the tool. My hands are another story, numb and tomorrow will ache. Trouble is, sun doesn't get to this spot so the ice won't melt. Hard to imagine doing anything without steel tools.
 
(and this of course is 'tongue in cheek') ;)

Then, the obvious solution here is to track down the descendants of the criminal's involved, and make them pay reparations to his heirs!

Mel
 
Originally posted by Melvin-Purvis
(and this of course is 'tongue in cheek') ;)

Then, the obvious solution here is to track down the descendants of the criminal's involved, and make them pay reparations to his heirs!

Mel
Click to expand...

Or at least pay all of Otzi's subsequent medical bills;)
I imagine they've spent quite a bit on him already.

With the glaciers melting back all over there are seem to be a lot of interesting things popping out of the ice worldwide. Who knows what's next?
 
And while playing with my most fascinating plastic dinosaurs, I used to tell people that 'when I grow up, I'm going to be a paleontologist' (I must confess, 'big words' like that were pretty much wasted on most of my 'South Texas' neighbors at the time)...

But, by age six, when I realized that my outlined course study would primarily consist of digging for bleached bones through hard pack limestone in Montana, or under the blistering sun of the Gobi desert, I decided that anthropology might be more inline with my original intent...

Unfortunately, by age seven, I had an epiphany, in which I realized that people as a whole, pretty much sucked; and as such, I'd be better off pursuing more gainful endeavors.

To that end, I resigned myself to chasing rabbits in the canyons, and later loose women, until I reached this, the sedentary equilibrium of posting ‘foo in various threads at BFC.

Nonetheless, I still find myself strangely pulled towards anthropological discoveries of note. Ah, to be young again… ;)

Mel

(What I said above is true; parents, promote learning, and educational pursuits in your children, lest they end up here, middle-aged and unchallenged)
 
no ferrous i think it was a conflict as apart from the arrow wound, he had a defensive slash wound made to his hand,jagged as to suit the knives carried then.
but was he the aggressor or the attacked ???
we will never know.:)
was he dressed as a noble warrior of that time may have been ???
or was he of lowly birth and poor clothing ???
he was dressed in grass stuffed shoes and jacket ect.
with a bear skin hat. interesting was the exquisite battle axe he carried his ??
or did he steal it in the fight he recieved the injuries ??:)
 
"Bronze Age Iceman"

Some of the young troops are convinced I could have been his drinking buddy.:rolleyes: ;)

Sarge
 
I thought the arrow was an old wound and troubled him. But what do I know? I didn't do it, honest.


munk
 
As I remember, the current conjecture is that the arrow-head, found through MRI technology, is in such a location as to severe a major artery which would have bled out. And, the early pictures of the cadaver showed what appeared to be blood stains, which were washed off by well-meaning folks who thought Otzi was a relatively-recent victim of a fall, and could not subsequently be examined.

Sarge? those who think you might have been a companion of Otzi may be paying you a compliment. Just think, he was walking THRU the Alps from Italy to Austria (one version). When you get back from your next business trip, think about trying THAT some day! Heck, I'll toss in the garlic clove.

5300 years ago! That's a little less than One hundred of My Life-times (so far). So, one hundred "me's" ago...hell, the Civil War in America was only three "me's" ago, Columbus hit America in 1492 which was...what TEN "me's" ago? Budha was supposed born in 530 B.C.--making that event...(it's getting more difficult here, I'm rounding off) 50 "me's" ago?

And there Otzi lay, covered by a glacier, with messages for our time, maybe our civilizations, having had similar dreams, passions, aspirations, and appetites as you and I do this day.

Wouldn't it be ironic if he had the secret for how humans could get along with one another and was killed so that the current rulers could stay in power?
 
Thanks for reminding me. I've been meaning to see that movie, and it's available to rent now. Just gotta block ~3 hours off to watch it.:)
 
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