OT-- Weapons of the Alans (Alani) people

Berk,

Thanks for that link. Very interesting reading. ...

I'm getting more here than in History class in school! :D

Alan
 
from Hilda Ellis Davidson. The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England. Woodbridge (Suffolk): The Boydell Press, 1962. rev ed., 1994.:

page 36:
'The origin of the long sword of the Germans might be looked for in the weapons of the Roman cavalry, in the long sword of the Gauls, or possibly in the sword of the Sarmatians and Alani in south Russia, a long cutting weapon which reached the Goths fairly early' (pg. 36) (fn: 'With regard to swords of this class, the difficulty is that practically no information is available about swords of Hungary, central Russia, and the Steppe regions, as Salin points out (iii, pp. 91 f.) [E. Salin. La Civilisation mérovingienne. (3 vols.). Paris, 1949-57.])
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pages 82-84:
'There is archaeological evidence for various attachments worn with swords, although it is hard to be certain whether they were fixed to hilt or scabbard....[Veeck] gives instances of one large bead of amber, one of crystal, and one of blue glass. Lindenschmidt had thought the presence of a bead meant that a woman had been buried with a man who owned the sword, but Veeck realized that this could not be....that the beads were connected with the swords themselves in some way; on the strength of a sword from south Russia (in the Berlin Museum), he suggested that they were pommels which had become detached from the hilt. But Reginald Smith's idea of a 'sword-knot' is confirmed by the discovery of the fine sword from Klein-Hüningen near Basle, dated by Laur-Belart to the second half of the sixth century (Fig. 11). The attachment in this case was a ball of amber with a knob of silver-gilt in the centre, which had been fastened to the end of a leather strap. While this establishes the position of the attachment, however, it does not fully explain the purpose....Böhner emphasized the fact that balls of meerschaum were found beside Frankish swords of the fifth and sixth centuries, and since this was a fragile substance unlikely to be chosen for any practical purpose, he thought that the beads and balls had some magical significance (like a cho, perhaps?--my note[BMS])....In Beiträge zur Archäologie des Attila-Reiches, Werner has discussed the significance of such balls....He puts evidence from eastern Europe beside that of the West, and shows that these sword attachments appear to have been a fashion among the Persians and Alani and to have come westward with the Huns about the fifth century A.D.'
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here's the figure (Fig. 11), refered to in the text:
littlehunsword.JPG


more anglo-saxon stuff here

B.
 
Sooo, if I'm reading it right...

It was a good thing to have balls in the 6th century. ... as long as you didn't lose them . ... ducking and running for cover quickly. ... ???

:D:D:D

Seriously, Ben, you are giving me great stuff. I love it (I just have to catch up with you now...).

Alan
 
Originally posted by ACStudios
Sooo, if I'm reading it right...

It was a good thing to have balls in the 6th century. ... as long as you didn't lose them . ... ducking and running for cover quickly. ... ???
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(Refer back to original text) - In connexion with this, please also note the possible origin of the previously obscure Frankish insult: 'old meerschaum balls'.

Originally posted by ACStudios

Seriously, Ben, you are giving me great stuff. I love it (I just have to catch up with you now...).
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I actually just stumbled across this one accidently (being a Anglo-Saxon 'hobby-scholar')--fascinating book!

B.
 
is Figure 40 in The Archaeology of Weapons by Ewart Oakeshott. He notes
n many cases where a sword has been found in a grave of the period between about 200 and 600A.D., there has been a large perforated bead, sometimes made of stone, sometimes of pottery or meerschaum, sometimes of glass, near the hilt of the sword. The frequency with which these things turn up, and the constant position of all of them near the sword hilt, makes it obvious that they were fixed, probably by a lace or a thong, either to the hilt itself in the manner of the sword knot, or to the top of the scabbard (fig. 40).
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Oakeshott believes these are the "life stones" frequently referred to in the Icelandic Sagas, which were capable of healing wounds inflicted by the sword that would otherwise not heal. Lots of other good stuff, too long to post, about the magical qualities attributed to swords and the rituals associated with their care and use. Everyone should read Oakeshott.
:)
 
Hi folks.

This is my first post on this board, though some people may recognize my "persona" from SFI.
I couldn't let a thread about the Alans go by without commenting, however, as it is quite rare to see anyone express an interest in the martial traditions of the Iranian nomads. I can't believe that I missed the post over at SFI, as I try to keep an eye out for such things.
Anyway, the Alans were an Iranian-speaking tribe of pastoralists, and one of the major tribes of the Sarmatians, along with the Roxolani and the Iazyges. The Sarmatians, collectively, are known as the originators of heavy cavalry tactics and cataphract equipment. They and their powerful warhorses wore heavy metal armor, and used long lances, maces, and swords as their primary weapons. The swords were typically long-bladed, straight single-edged weapons designed to be used with one hand from horseback. There are some fragmentary remains, however, of two-handed Sarmatian swords. These folks introduced the use of heavy cavalry to the Parthians, the Eastern Romans, and the Goths. They were heavily recruited by the Romans as cavalry auxiliaries, and settled in large numbers within Roman Europe. By late imperial times, they were heavily assimilated with the Goths, and spread their distinctive method of mounted fighting to Western Europe along with the Gothic migrations. A force of Sarmatians fighting on the Gothic side is usually credited with imparting the decisive blow against the Romans at Adrianople.
If there is some way that I can post a picture, I have an image of a few excavated Sarmatian swords.
 
Originally posted by Scythian

If there is some way that I can post a picture, I have an image of a few excavated Sarmatian swords.
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WELCOME to the Cantina - many thanks for the interesting post --

if you email me with the photos, I can post them to the board.
 
Scythian,

Welcome to the cantina! And much thanks for the information. I guess my earlier post about not believing the heavy calvary methods have been unjustified :) . I am now a believer...

It is very strange that they could come up with this type of fighting from the steppes where light calvary seems to be the dominate style. Very cool though.

I have been doing this research in conjunction with joining the SCA chapter here in Rapid City. It has forced me to start looking into the history of the Middle Ages, something I've always wanted to do but never had the opportunity. Now, I do. ... :D

I haven't checked over on the Sword Forum in a bit. ... I've been getting too much good information right here at home! I better go and see if anyone has answered and thank them.

Again, welcome and thanks!

Alan
 
Scythian,

I forgot to ask. ... Did the Alans use a shorter recurve bow, a long bow, or something in between?? I read that they were great archers, but don't think I've seen anything on what type they used....

Thanks

Alan
 
Originally posted by ACStudios
Scythian,

I forgot to ask. ... Did the Alans use a shorter recurve bow, a long bow, or something in between?? I read that they were great archers, but don't think I've seen anything on what type they used....

Thanks

Alan
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Like their ancestors the Scythians and their cousins on the Iranian Plateau, the Alans used the short bow of composite construction. It was powerful and long-ranged, but easy to handle on horseback. These fellows were almost literally born in the saddle, as they travelled everywhere in wagons.
Interestinly, despite their nomadic way of life, all of the Iranian-speaking nomads were noted for their excellent metal-working skills.
Like all the steppe nomads, they were fantastic horsemen, and well versed in the famous "feigned retreat", which they used to great effect against both Rome and Rome's enemies (depending on the era and the locale).
 
Originally posted by Scythian

Anyway, the Alans were an Iranian-speaking tribe of pastoralists, and one of the major tribes of the Sarmatians, along with the Roxolani and the Iazyges.
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Scythian - so the Alans spoke a dialect of Old Persian, is that correct? Are there any surviving documents or anything of their language?

cheers, B.
 
Like I said, Harvard has nothing on us -- and you don't have to be rich and/or of famous lineage to get into the HI forum!
 
Also read:

History of the Art of War, Volume II, The Barbarian Invasions, by Hans Delbruck (ISBN 0-8032-9200-7)

n2s
 
Originally posted by beoram


Scythian - so the Alans spoke a dialect of Old Persian, is that correct? Are there any surviving documents or anything of their language?

cheers, B.
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Well, the Alan's language would have been a little different from Old Persian, probably about the same difference as between Swedish and Norse? It's hard to say, since I am not a linguist.
There are, as far as I know, no known written records of the Alans, since they were apparently nonliterate. They had a strong oral tradition, like many of the Indo-Europeans, but had little use for writing.
 
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