OT: What is a "Firearm" ?

Originally posted by det
Yes, felons lose the right to own firearms, but you will also lose the right to own firearms if you have a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction.
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He was charged with improper storage of smokeless powder and other things related to that.
 
Originally posted by det
Title 18, USC, Ch. 44

A "Firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) The frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. The term does not include an antique firearm.
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This seems like it could include blackpowder rifles that were not antiques. I was thinking of buying a muzzle loader kit (not a non-firing replica, etc.) to learn how it all goes together. Would this violation Title 18/44?
 
The term "antique firearms" actually means any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar ignition systems either manufactured on or before 1898 or a replica thereof (However, the replica cannot fire centerfire or rimfire ammo). It also includes muzzleloading rifles, shotguns, and pistols that use black powder (or black powder substitute).
 
Originally posted by pendentive
This seems like it could include blackpowder rifles that were not antiques. I was thinking of buying a muzzle loader kit (not a non-firing replica, etc.) to learn how it all goes together. Would this violation Title 18/44?
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Pendentive, best to check your local firearm laws. Like MA you have pretty restrictive laws in MD. Here in MA a black powder rifle is not considered a firearm. You can purchase a rifle or a kit without a Firearms ID card. You cannot, however, buy the black or smokeless powder to go with it. Weird, huh?
 
OK. In the MD law it defines "antique firearm" as

(1) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured prior to 1899; or
(2) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (1) of this subsection if the replica:
(i) Is not deisned or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or
(ii) Usses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


It defines "firearm" as:
(1) Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by th eaction of an explosive; or
(2) The frame or receiver of any such weapon.



441A. Exemptions from application of subheading. The prohibitions of this subjeading do not apply to:
(2) The transfer or possession of an antique firearm;
 
Originally posted by KnifeRat
If you buy an airgun in MI you have to have it shipped to a FFL dealer, you can't have it shipped home.
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Nope, I just bought one mail order a couple months ago. had it shipped to my house. When shipping anything by UPS that can't be purchasd by someone under 18 it has to be signed for by an adult.

Drew
 
Originally posted by pendentive
This seems like it could include blackpowder rifles that were not antiques. I was thinking of buying a muzzle loader kit (not a non-firing replica, etc.) to learn how it all goes together. Would this violation Title 18/44?
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Antique only refers to firearms manufactured more than 100 years ago. Black powder guns are classified as Curios and Relics. They are weapons that have no comercially available ammunition. Thus can be sold without FFL.

Drew
 
No, Curios and Relics are something else again, purchasable by a C&R, or 03 Collectors, FFL holder. For more information on Curios and Relics head over to www.cruffler.com a great site.
 
Curios and Relics are still firearms. Anything 50 years old or older that has not been specifically exempted by the BATF is a C&R.

An individual can apply for a C&R FFL and purchase them without filling out Form 4473 just like a typical firearms dealer can with typical firearms. It facilitates transfers across state lines and was designed for collectors of old guns. A C&R FFL require less paperwork and less money than an Dealer FFL.
 
Originally posted by Ilovetoolsteel
Nope, I just bought one mail order a couple months ago. had it shipped to my house. When shipping anything by UPS that can't be purchasd by someone under 18 it has to be signed for by an adult.

Drew
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You're right about .177 cal. being able to be shipped to residents in MI. Sorry about the mistake. It's anything larger that requires a FFL dealer. Here's a policy statement that is typical of airgun dealers--check out all the steps for MI residents!:

Based on the state law we do NOT and can NOT ship airguns or bb guns to New York City and its boroughs (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Staten Island), the city of Philadelphia, PA and Washington DC.

Residents of Chicago, IL cannot buy CO2 powered rifles, pistols or revolvers directly from us.

Residents of New Jersey can buy bb guns through a designated local gun store after acquiring an Airgun Permit.
Cite from New Jersey law: "A 'firearm' means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, air gun, gas gun, machine gun, or 'any gun'."

Michigan residents, .177 CALIBER AIR RIFLES CAN BE PURCHASED DIRECTLY ON THE WEB SITE AND WILL BE SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO YOU. No air pistols of any caliber can be sold to you unless the proper permits are issued by the State and local authorities.
According to Michigan law Sec. 222. As used in this chapter: (b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, Bb's not exceeding .177 caliber.

Michigan residents, if you would like to purchase something other than a .177 caliber air rifle, we will ship it to you, however you will have to follow the steps below:

1. Inform our company of the item you want to purchase.
2. The item will be shipped to the designated dealer/retailer in your area. Your job is to find a participating dealer/retailer and let us know where to ship your gun.
3. Go to your local police department to obtain a Permit to Purchase the airgun. Each airgun purchase must have a separate Permit.
4. After the Permit is issued to you by the Police take it to the gun store where your gun will be shipped.
5. After the Permit is presented to the store and the fee is paid they will hand over the airgun to you.
6. Take the airgun back to the police department, where they will conduct a safety check and ballistics test.
After it is determined that the gun is safe and tests are conducted you will be ready to take the airgun home.
 
Just talked to a buddy in Georgia. Apparently, a "firearm" in Georgia includes antiques and replicas.

Can anybody comment on this?

Dan
 
To add some further irony, real firearms, with the exception of black powder guns, are not powered by an "explosive" The technical term is propellant. Modern explosives move outward at about 20-30 thousand feet per second. Propellants, of course, move the bullets out of the barrel at 2.4-4 thousand feet per second. There is probably something more technical that differentiates an explosive, because BP is an explosive, and yet doesn't get much above 2 thousand feet per second in a gun.

In the Michigan case, I wonder what they have going on in their noggins. A fair number of modern sporting airguns won't fire their pellet out of the barrel, if you just seal your thumb over the muzzle (don't try this, but I have done it many times, to no ill effect, but you have to know the rules. These are guns capable of cleanly taking a ground hog.

This airgun rule probably has more to do with shipping than anything. The US while having a pretty lax set of gun laws has lots of little rigidities. Interstate mailing is a big problem. So you get the situation where you can buy a machinegun, but you can't buy a pellet gun through the mail. Regulation often leads to absurd results, but where would we be without it. Other things that are tough are the short barrel shotguns, and sillencers. I once walked into an irish sporting goods store, and asked them if they sold silencers. The man started to take me to the back of the shop. I realized he wanted to sell me a real silencer, when all I was looking for was one for an air rifle. The air rifle ones are quite popular in UK where air gun hunting is about all they allow with a rifle. The airguns are so low powered that they need to be silenced for second shots, and to stop the animal from flinching, or to stop large numbers of baited rats for instance from scatering. They didn't have these silencers, since they readily sold the real thing in Ireland. In a lot of places they would no more sell a gun without a silencer than a car without a muffler.
 
Been there done that, enjoyed the trafic jam. I was in rush hour in big italian city, not Rome, the name escapes me. Every car totaly disreguarded every light, and interesections looked like parkay floors. It was great fun, just glad I don't have to do the comute.

I'm not an american, but I did read the constitution, rather surprised by how short it is. Is regulation unconstitutional, I am sure there are regulations that are unconstitutional. Are all regulations unconstitutional. Wouldn't absolute freedom preclude a constitution of any sort. Or is this one of those liberty vs freedom issues.

None of this stuff affects me, I live in Canada, which while a great place is run under a multi tiered system of lifetime rule by the second rate. Of course the second rate are a lot better than their rep implies, still it's a little embarassing.
 
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