Otter knives hardness and a new steel.

14C28N is basically AEB-L, so it is stainless, very tough, and takes a fine edge.

The new Otter knives will be great!
 
I guess I use all kinds of steel...

My Japanese chef's knives are all VG10 Damascus. I use them primarily for things with a fine finish and vegetables where a sharp, clean edge is important (think tomatoes and peeling fruit). For butchering meat I prefer my Chicago Cutlery carbon steel knives. They're better at navigating around bones and they are workhorses.

My everyday pocket knife is a Lionsteel with M390. Those blades are incredibly sharp and they stay sharp forever. I get lazy and don't sharpen on a regular basis. This helps keep my pocket knife always ready. For an old time traditional work knife I like carbon steel. I don't usually think about what kind of carbon steel it is. I probably should think about that and try to figure out which one I like the best. But I like the old school attributes that do a good job at pretty much everything without being difficult to sharpen. I like a little patina on a work knife.

For fixed blade hunting knives, I prefer stainless steels that are easier to sharpen and aren't brittle. I like Buck's 420HC because it strikes a perfect balance between all the attributes for a hunting knife.
 
This wasn't ment to be another discussion on super steel. Just wanted to post some more information about Otter knives and their new steel.
 
Just Tom. said:
Maybe. If I understand you correctly, it seems like you are describing large carbides acting as sort of micro-serrations.

I guess, based on my own somewhat limited experience, I would argue that toughness and ease of sharpening are really important for real-world applications, and from what I “understand” from reading stuff on the internet, those qualities are sacrificed somewhat with higher hardness steels.

I worked on a commercial salmon troller for a couple of months when I was a teenager in the mid 1980s, and caught and cleaned sometimes a couple hundred large salmon in a day. Granted it was a long time ago, but I recall the skipper used to sharpen the knives periodically, and I noticed an increase in performance when he did, but I don’t recall him doing it more than once a day or so. I’m sure these were not any special steel. So what are people doing with their knives that is more demanding than that?

These days, I go to a nearby slaughter house 2-3 times a year to get an animal butchered. The guy there uses some sort of industrial-grade stainless knives. He does pass them over a steel fairly frequently, but he does an impressive amount of processing in between. And I know they are sharp, because he hands me one to do the actual slaughtering with. How many carcasses are people cutting up daily with their super steels?

I certainly don’t begrudge folks their enthusiasm for new and exciting materials, but I do wonder what experience their disdain for some of the more traditional stuff is based on.
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Certainly, those so-called "super steels" (I do not agree with this definition) are not essential to do the job, other steels are certainly are as capable given that they are maintained properly. It is all down to preference and how one uses his/her knives. Every people has a different opinion about what is a sharp or sufficient knife. I am mostly a low alloy (or carbide) steel kind of guy but this perception is changed a bit after using Z-Max in the kitchen and while cutting cardboard during moving the house.

Of course, simple stainless steel will cut through meat and perhaps someone who only used such steels for butchering will not know the difference and will not seek an alternative. It requires some insightful comparison between low and had carbide steels when cutting organic material to appreciate the difference. More and more I found myself using my Z-Max mule in my kitchen instead of a relatively lower carbide 52100 utility knife. For me, the steels with high hardness and volume of carbides are as easy as low carbide volume to sharpen because I have all the right tools to do so (i.e. CBN/Diamond). The only trade-off in my opinion is the reduction in toughness but blade geometry dictates the edge durability more than the carbides and hardness of the steel. So depending on the use low toughness of those steels can be compensated with thicker geometry. For instance, my Z-MAx mule at nearly 70 HRC is less prone to chipping than my 60-62 HRCH 52100 knife due to the thicker geometry. Despite of the thicker geometry Z-Max mule cuts better than my 52100 utility knife. Perhaps this is due to micro serration as you mentioned. Who knows...
 
Just Tom. said:
I’m genuinely curious what people are doing with their knives which require such hard steels and extreme edge retention.
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It’s a symptom of the human condition; a little is good, so more must be better.

I’ve had excellent experiences with ESEE’s S35VN at higher hardness versus the same knife in 1095 at lower hardness, but I use both. I think it says a lot that after S35VN I haven’t felt compelled to get another fancy-ish steel.

I’m glad to see Otter sticking with solid budget steels. They know their market, and I respect the utilitarian nature of a dependable, inexpensive knife.
 
I don't believe any of the steels mentioned by the thread starter could be considered super steels now; maybe 10 years ago. I just did a quick survey on the bay and found the N690 knives selling around $170, and was shocked. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the value there. The lionsteel and viper Italian knives have an even better stainless in M390, and they sell for much less, with nicer looking aesthetics. I've never found anything lacking in a low carbide stainless like 420HC @ 56-58 HRc for daily tasks, but generally choose better steels in fixed blades for the harder jobs. Both have their place.
 
The steel type has, for some reason or another, just become much more important in the last 10 or 15 years or so. Seeing that Otter is very conservative in them outputting new models and steels and sticking to making what they know works for them, and most of their clients, it was just a suprise to see starting a new line in Sandvik steel. I think it was good customer service of them to post the hardness they run their knives on from a simple customer request. I see this as typical german. They offer good quality knives without too much frills and drama."Gründlichkeit". And i hope they will continue to make knives in this way. Just dependable hardware, nothing too fancy, nothing too flashy, just tools you know you will probably give to your grandkids who will think "old fashioned grandpa knives" but maybe will appreciate their heritage and workmanship when they get older. They know they can't compete with cheap chinese mass produced knives and their customer base isn't looking for the latest and greatest in steel or design. So they continue making what works for them. But i realise it's getting harder for them to stay in bussiness. In the old days "Solingen" ment something to their clients.
 
Jim malone said:
This wasn't ment to be another discussion on super steel. Just wanted to post some more information about Otter knives and their new steel.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I'll be watching to see what Otter has to offer.
 
Just Tom. said:
Maybe. If I understand you correctly, it seems like you are describing large carbides acting as sort of micro-serrations.

I guess, based on my own somewhat limited experience, I would argue that toughness and ease of sharpening are really important for real-world applications, and from what I “understand” from reading stuff on the internet, those qualities are sacrificed somewhat with higher hardness steels.

I worked on a commercial salmon troller for a couple of months when I was a teenager in the mid 1980s, and caught and cleaned sometimes a couple hundred large salmon in a day. Granted it was a long time ago, but I recall the skipper used to sharpen the knives periodically, and I noticed an increase in performance when he did, but I don’t recall him doing it more than once a day or so. I’m sure these were not any special steel. So what are people doing with their knives that is more demanding than that?

These days, I go to a nearby slaughter house 2-3 times a year to get an animal butchered. The guy there uses some sort of industrial-grade stainless knives. He does pass them over a steel fairly frequently, but he does an impressive amount of processing in between. And I know they are sharp, because he hands me one to do the actual slaughtering with. How many carcasses are people cutting up daily with their super steels?

I certainly don’t begrudge folks their enthusiasm for new and exciting materials, but I do wonder what experience their disdain for some of the more traditional stuff is based on.
Click to expand...
Well said and the same goes for all the people that claim they absolutely need a knife that will take hard abuse or else its useless to them. Hard use doing what? Bet its not working on a commercial fishing boat or a meat processing line.
 
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