Out of Control

T

TwoDogs

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Oct 9, 2008
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Another kid (Eagle Scout no less) in trouble for having a traditional knife (that his grandfather gave him)... and this one was locked in the trunk of his car, not to mention the poor little cub scout that was just proud of his new scout knife....please, where does it stop.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,566182,00.html?test=latestnews

How many of you are like me and can remember carrying your pocket knife to school with no worries at all.

They better watch those #2 pencils, they can get pretty sharp....someone could get hurt.
 
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I carried a Cub Scout knife to elementary school just about every day. It was expected that I have it on my person at our weekly after-school pack meetings. It came in handy for sharpening pencils in class. As I recall it had one main blade and a combo can opener/bottle opener tool. It never raised an eye.

I carried a BSA knife to jr. high and high school. It was the standard Kamp King with a main blade and three other tools. Nobody though anything of it.

My senior year I brought a traditional looking lockback my brother gave me. It was small and wood handled, I think a Kershaw or Spyderco but I'm not sure. It eventually loosened up so I stopped carrying it.

In college I carried a SAK Spartan. It went everywhere I did and even to Europe twice. Didn't raise and eye anywhere, looked innocent in those red plastic scales. I still have the Spartan and the Kamp King--or rather, my son does.

Hey, I just realized most of my education experience can be defined by the traditional knife I carried. :eek::D:thumbup:
 
I toted a knife (if somewhat discretely) all through high school. I remember a few different SAKs, a Case medium stockman, a Buck 501 Squire, and an Old Timer 33OT middleman jack. Sadly, like common sense these days, those fine knives are just a memory.
 
Until last year, when I heard about the airlines not allowing knives as carry-on, I never dreamed that knives were an issue anytime, any where. Boy, was I out of the game! Well, now I am educated. What a joke! When I was going to high school a big hunting knife on a kid's belt wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. If you looked out the window into the parking lot, you would see rifles hanging in the back window of the pickups, even in the summertime. Of course, those vehicles were owned either by kids who lived out in the country or by seniors who had a part time job. It was unheard-of for anyone else to have a car, unless maybe one was the son of the banker.
 
We'll keep it here as long as we don't sally forth too far afield. Otherwise it may end up in one of the sub-forums set up for this sort of discussion.

I wrote a letter to the school board for that little fella Zach the other day. Glad to see that they decided to revisit the situation. Calling that "tool" of his a "weapon" was a bit of a stretch. Rather than have folks take responsibility with their tools, they just want to legislate "minimum mandatory" sentences like when I was still on the job. Heck, most anything can be used as a weapon with a little thought.

I carried a pocket knife all through my schooling and I think it was only taken away from me once by Mrs. Bernhardt in 5th grade. It was returned at the end of the day with an admonishment not to open it during class. (I don't recall my reason for having done so.)
 
I remember from the first grade when they started teaching us how to write with those big stick pencils. All of us were expected to carry a knife so we could sharpen them. The boys were expected to sharpen the knives of the girls too. The teacher (Mrs Hailey always had bandaids for the "accidents" and she carried a knife too. (but that was a long time ago in 10-UH-C).
 
I've had to reluctantly take my daughter's SAK out of her pocketbook on several occasions. It was painful each time. "But dad, I USE that". To which I have to reply that I know, I carried a SAK or Old Timer on me to school when I was a kid, but times are different now. She's a natural with a Daisy 880 Powerline too, but in this day and age, it's unfortunately she has to keep silent about and can't really brag about to her friends.
 
It is hard to accept but not hard to understand (the rule anyway, it is plain and very clear). You cannot have any weapon- ANY knife included- on school grounds. According to the law, in Texas at least, driving through a school zone with a firearm in your vehicle (Regardless of where it is in the vehicle) is a violation of the no weapons law. Kids, leave your knives at home.

By the way, I carried a swiss army knife (tinker) in my front pocket every day in high school. It was against the zero tolerance rules then.

Don't think that you have any right to privacy in your car. The supreme court has already ruled that you do not.
 
Bastid said:
I remember from the first grade when they started teaching us how to write with those big stick pencils. All of us were expected to carry a knife so we could sharpen them. The boys were expected to sharpen the knives of the girls too. The teacher (Mrs Hailey always had bandaids for the "accidents" and she carried a knife too. (but that was a long time ago in 10-UH-C).
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Man, the good old days. All three of my boys have pocket knives, and I am teaching them to use them safely. They are learning to sharpen a pencil to the perfect point, better than those silly sharpeners they have at school, which grind a real rough point on the pencil. They are learning not to use their teeth when opening a plastic package, or on those plastic strip things that hold tags to new clothes or shoes. They are learning to cut an apple without cutting their fingers (been a few boo-boos with that one). But, they can't have them in their pocket at school. And these are not tactical zombie de-animator knives. They are SAKs, small Schrade SP-2's, and so forth.

Man, the good old days...
 
hlee said:
It is hard to accept but not hard to understand (the rule anyway, it is plain and very clear). You cannot have any weapon- ANY knife included- on school grounds. According to the law, in Texas at least, driving through a school zone with a firearm in your vehicle (Regardless of where it is in the vehicle) is a violation of the no weapons law. Kids, leave your knives at home.

By the way, I carried a swiss army knife (tinker) in my front pocket every day in high school. It was against the zero tolerance rules then.

Don't think that you have any right to privacy in your car. The supreme court has already ruled that you do not.
Click to expand...

Except that not every state considers all knives weapons, and the article makes vague reference to the knife in question not being considered a weapon by NYSED standards. Ironically, the US has about 40,000 motor vehicle deaths per year compared to around 2,000 stabbing deaths, but a teenager with his own car isn't dangerous unless that car has a knife in it.
 
I carried a Buck 110 on a belt sheath during my 4 years of high school as did a quarter of the school population at that time. (1970-1974). I must say nary a knife fight in or around school that I can remember!

My youngest son on his second day of high school was given a cheap import small lockback by two other students. He was naive enough to put it in his locker with the intention of taking it home at the end of the school day. Two hours later he was pulled from class and asked to open his locker. When I went to the hearing etc I noticed the signs hung up in the halls and classrooms offering $50 to any student that turned in another for having a weapon on school grounds. I asked if the boys that gave him the knife received the reward. I was told that was confidential information and would not be released. My opinion was that it was good business for the boys, selling a 3 dollar knife to the school for $50! Anyways we home schooled him for a year to the dismay of the school system and he is now graduated and doing fine.
 
ken erickson said:
I carried a Buck 110 on a belt sheath during my 4 years of high school as did a quarter of the school population at that time. (1970-1974). I must say nary a knife fight in or around school that I can remember!

My youngest son on his second day of high school was given a cheap import small lockback by two other students. He was naive enough to put it in his locker with the intention of taking it home at the end of the school day. Two hours later he was pulled from class and asked to open his locker. When I went to the hearing etc I noticed the signs hung up in the halls and classrooms offering $50 to any student that turned in another for having a weapon on school grounds. I asked if the boys that gave him the knife received the reward. I was told that was confidential information and would not be released. My opinion was that it was good business for the boys, selling a 3 dollar knife to the school for $50! Anyways we home schooled him for a year to the dismay of the school system and he is now graduated and doing fine.
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Wow, that story is just what is the problem Ken. Some kids develop a brilliant criminal mind very young, and can use "rules" to their advantage. This story just shows how they can do it, and be percieved as the good guy. Good is bad, and bad is good, sign of the times.
 
hlee said:
Don't think that you have any right to privacy in your car. The supreme court has already ruled that you do not.
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Plenty of folks argue there is no right to privacy at all. Others counter that a right to privacy is implied. The later seems to carry a bit more weight these days.

There is a right against unreasonable search. However, some rights for minors have been curtailed. And it's not clear how far the right against unreasonable search of anyone goes, when on publicly owned property.

All this is what happens when it's decided to be unyieldingly tough and manically consistent on crime. Freedoms are withdrawn in the name of security.
 
shecky said:
Plenty of folks argue there is no right to privacy at all. Other counter that it's implied.

There is a right against unreasonable search. However, some rights for minors have been curtailed. And it's not clear how far the right against unreasonable search of anyone goes, when on publicly owned property.

All this is what happens when it's decided to be tough and manically consistent on crime. Freedoms are withdrawn in the name of security.
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We're not going to go down this legal avenue in this forum. Thanks for helping us keep this discussion within some semblance of boundaries. Discussion of that topic is better pursued in the "knife laws" or "political" section of this website.
 
I remember being in shop class in 1981 and we had been sharpening pencils with our knives and we all had them laying out on our desk opened. Our teacher came by and started commenting(wow nice old Case, nice old Old Timer, and nice Boker I have one just like that). For the next few minutes us guys and Mr. Edgers were in a nice conversation about knives and what they meant to us! I can ever remember one time Mr. Edgers modifying one of his Bokers in class! This country had better get back to electing only people that are going to uphold the Constitution real quick, and stop being weak minded enough to be sucked into what they're selling:(!!
 
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artmichalek said:
Except that not every state considers all knives weapons, and the article makes vague reference to the knife in question not being considered a weapon by NYSED standards. Ironically, the US has about 40,000 motor vehicle deaths per year compared to around 2,000 stabbing deaths, but a teenager with his own car isn't dangerous unless that car has a knife in it.
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Good point! Let's hear some outrage about teenagers texting, or cell phone use while driving. I'm opposed to kids bringing stuff to school that could distract whether it's pocket knives or transformer toys, etc. But let's have the punishment fit the crime. And let's teach these kids a lesson about the importance of knives in the history of the U.S. and the world for that matter. Maybe, with that knowledge, we won't have a bunch of idiots making stupid decisions and creating a society of people who fear tools.
 
Liberals have no common sense, so they must use the "zero tolerance" crutch. I and most of the other guys I went to school with carried a knife every day with no problems. Good on ya, Blues, for writing that letter.
 
hlee said:
It is hard to accept but not hard to understand (the rule anyway, it is plain and very clear). You cannot have any weapon- ANY knife included- on school grounds. According to the law, in Texas at least, driving through a school zone with a firearm in your vehicle (Regardless of where it is in the vehicle) is a violation of the no weapons law. Kids, leave your knives at home.

By the way, I carried a swiss army knife (tinker) in my front pocket every day in high school. It was against the zero tolerance rules then.

Don't think that you have any right to privacy in your car. The supreme court has already ruled that you do not.
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Hence, this rule is quite vague. Weapon? What does that constitute? Something that can cause damage or kill someone? Like a sharp pencil, a pen, or a set of keys? A school bag, a belt, anything the person is wearing is a weapon. The PERSON is a weapon. Does this mean they shouldn't go to school at all? A pocketknife is NOT designed to kill someone. Could it? oF COURSE. So can your car, which means I really hope there are no parking lots in the school in Texas, because that is breaking the law, since every year, cars kill more people then knives. I see no clear definition for this rule.
 
scattershot said:
Liberals have no common sense, so they must use the "zero tolerance" crutch. I and most of the other guys I went to school with carried a knife every day with no problems. Good on ya, Blues, for writing that letter.
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Thank you, scattershot. :cool:

However, I must take exception to the blanket use of the term "liberals" to define folks who have that perspective. First, (and this is an argument for another forum) I think the term is pretty much meaningless overall as it has been used to define an opponent to any point of view...

...and most importantly, regardless of a person's thoughts on any other subject or topic, we are only discussing the point of view vis a vis carrying pocket knives.

So, no issue with your stance (obviously), just the "labeling". :cool:
 
My youngest, a nine-year old daughter, really appreciates the utility of a fine pocket knife. She picked out her own knife a few years ago, it was a Case pink polka dot Peanut. I ask that she carry it to use it around the house and whenever she's goes out with either my wife or me. If she needs to cut something, I'd prefer she use her own Peanut and not have to borrow a knife from another member of the family. I'm teaching her that as a part of a larger lesson about self-reliance.

So far, she knows how to carve simple figures in soap, quarter apples, sharpen pencils, open packages, cut tags off of new clothes and things like that. It gives her a sense of accomplishment and independence to be able to do that for herself and to have the latitude to figure things out for herself.

I told her that if she ever forgets to take the Peanut out of her pocket or backpack before school and she realizes it mid-day, to keep it where it is, not try to move it or hide it, and not tell anyone until she gets home. Zero-tolerance has no quarter for innocent mistakes or for the innocent use of everyday tools. It's happened a couple of times and she's done just fine.
 
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