Outdoorsman is a butter knife and customer service is abysmal

[SharpBits]

Taiwan. I believe they’ve started outsourcing to there for a while.

More recently they’ve been outsourcing to China. The Bushman and machetes come to mind. Reviews have been mixed to poor on those. Taiwan made usually has very high quality these days. Usually.

 

[The Whip]

Years ago, I had a friend at work who had broken the blades on three different Sebenzas that he owned during his time as an Army officer. He told me that by the second replacement CRK began accusing him of abusing the knives, so when the third blade snapped he gave up on CRK and didn't bother sending it in for repair. Despite his telling me that, I've never felt the need to go into the Chris Reeve Knives subforum here and criticize Chris Reeve, CRK, or any CRK product.

I have multiple Spyderco knives whose factory sheaths hold the knives so tightly that they render them useless for practical carry. Yet I would never even consider going into the Spyderco subforum to make blanket claims about Spyderco knives, deride Spyderco as a company, or disparage Sal Glesser for poor leadership. To do so would be rude, tasteless, and a waste of everyone's time.

I marvel at how frequently people come to this subforum to complain about Cold Steel and/or to berate Lynn Thompson. I often wonder what motivates people to say the things they do online.

I'm not an apologist for Cold Steel or Lynn Thompson, but I'm a longtime admirer of the company, its products, and its president. As such, when people make nonsensical and false statements about them in this subforum, I feel the need to respond.

CS was never a knife company in the sense that Buck is a knife company. CS makes knives in the way Nike makes shoes.

Oh, really? That's simply not true.

CS always contracted with (as opposed to employed) designers, worked out a product, and contracted a manufacturer at the lowest possible price. What happened in house was a marketing process

Most of the Cold Steel knives produced throughout the 1980s and early 1990s were designed by Lynn Thompson himself. Also, I'm curious, what was Dan Maragni's role in the "marketing process" when he was employed by Cold Steel?

What made CS products good was a dictatorial leader (Lynn Thompson) who was dedicated to his own life story

"Dictatorial leader dedicated to his own life story"? Do you have any evidence for such a broad, defamatory statement?

In addition to the nice things Lynn wrote about and did for Dan Maragni in the piece above, on two separate occasions he purchased brand new vehicles (a decked-out muscle car and a high-end pickup truck) for two longtime Cold Steel employees to commemorate their years of service with the company. None of that sounds to me like the actions of a dictatorial company president dedicated to his own life story.

everyone would see through the entertaining BS (and it was BS) and recognize the grift.

BS and grift? So the products didn't perform as Cold Steel claimed? Or are you saying that accomplished people out in the real world didn't actually use the knives for the purposes for which Lynn created them? Regardless of which claim you're making, I know through personal experience that neither of those statements is true.

CS is no more a marketing screen for a largely offshore manufacturing mill than in Thompson's day

Carbon V knives were prevalent throughout the product lineup for decades. It's inaccurate at best, and misleading at worst, to call the Cold Steel of Thompson's day "a largely offshore manufacturing mill."

Eventually CS will disappear altogether, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

GSM isn't upholding the standards or the spirit that Lynn Thompson invested in the company. But I certainly would consider the demise of Cold Steel a very bad thing. The knife industry was quite drab and conformist before Cold Steel. If Cold Steel disappears, a competitive high-water mark will be lost that no other knife company will fill.


-Steve

 

[The Zieg]

Years ago, I had a friend at work who had broken the blades on three different Sebenzas that he owned during his time as an Army officer. He told me that by the second replacement CRK began accusing him of abusing the knives, so when the third blade snapped he gave up on CRK and didn't bother sending it in for repair. Despite his telling me that, I've never felt the need to go into the Chris Reeve Knives subforum here and criticize Chris Reeve, CRK, or any CRK product.

I have multiple Spyderco knives whose factory sheaths hold the knives so tightly that they render them useless for practical carry. Yet I would never even consider going into the Spyderco subforum to make blanket claims about Spyderco knives, deride Spyderco as a company, or disparage Sal Glesser for poor leadership. To do so would be rude, tasteless, and a waste of everyone's time.

I marvel at how frequently people come to this subforum to complain about Cold Steel and/or to berate Lynn Thompson. I often wonder what motivates people to say the things they do online.

I'm not an apologist for Cold Steel or Lynn Thompson, but I'm a longtime admirer of the company, its products, and its president. As such, when people make nonsensical and false statements about them in this subforum, I feel the need to respond.




Oh, really? That's simply not true.

Most of the Cold Steel knives produced throughout the 1980s and early 1990s were designed by Lynn Thompson himself. Also, I'm curious, what was Dan Maragni's role in the "marketing process" when he was employed by Cold Steel?

"Dictatorial leader dedicated to his own life story"? Do you have any evidence for such a broad, defamatory statement?

In addition to the nice things Lynn wrote about and did for Dan Maragni in the piece above, on two separate occasions he purchased brand new vehicles (a decked-out muscle car and a high-end pickup truck) for two longtime Cold Steel employees to commemorate their years of service with the company. None of that sounds to me like the actions of a dictatorial company president dedicated to his own life story.




BS and grift? So the products didn't perform as Cold Steel claimed? Or are you saying that accomplished people out in the real world didn't actually use the knives for the purposes for which Lynn created them? Regardless of which claim you're making, I know through personal experience that neither of those statements is true.

Carbon V knives were prevalent throughout the product lineup for decades. It's inaccurate at best, and misleading at worst, to call the Cold Steel of Thompson's day "a largely offshore manufacturing mill."




GSM isn't upholding the standards or the spirit that Lynn Thompson invested in the company. But I certainly would consider the demise of Cold Steel a very bad thing. The knife industry was quite drab and conformist before Cold Steel. If Cold Steel disappears, a competitive high-water mark will be lost that no other knife company will fill.


-Steve

Steve, that's great work you've done holding me to account. For every point you make contrary to mine, I stand corrected! Thank you for the information. My responses below:

The demise of the CS of old has already taken place. GSM's CS is not the company of yore and so when it disappears, few tears will be shed. But that's not the CS we all fell in love with.

I stand by my characterization of CS as an offshore manufacturing mill insofar as their merchandise became less and less made in the US and even US made products were never the lion's share of their lineup. We could go through the numbers and if I'm wrong about this, I will cop to it, but I don't think I am. Carbon V was prominent, but was not their meat and potatoes. That would be the AUS series knives and other tools (tomahawks and machetes and shovels and so forth).

By "BS and grift" I am referring to Thompson's theatrics. The knives did (and mine still do) perform as advertised and many high-speed-low-drag operators still use them on missions. But it's us hoi polloi punters who paid the bills, and the circus was aimed our way.

The term I hold to most firmly is "dictator". CS was no democracy and it flourished as a result of Thompson having the freedom to pursue his vision. If that vision had been watered down by naysayers, we wouldn't have had the CS we knew and loved. I never disparaged Thompson's leadership. Quite the opposite! I never said Thompson didn't treat people well or reward them. But that's also what dictatorial CEOs do, they hand out lavish rewards. As for being dedicated to his own life story, one need only look at the videos of Thompson's big game hunts and martial arts sessions and swordplay, his tales of his youth in Brazil and his big dogs. It's a testosterone-soaked adventure serial! What's even better is that it's all true, but it is his story and it is pretty clear he wanted us to love it and emulate it with products he sold us. He's a larger than life man and like any good salesman he made this part of his grift. I make no apologies for pointing this out.

As I said about the rest, though, I stand corrected. You brought up some good information. It makes me appreciate my CS 'hawks, machetes, Carbon V knives, and fighting sticks that much more. The main point of my post, though, is that it's precisely because of Thompson's leadership that we used to be able to expect the high quality the OP was hoping for with his Outdoorsman. But without the great man himself, we have a lot of disappointment.

I hope the OP gets the knife he wants in the end.

 

[Buffalohump]

More recently they’ve been outsourcing to China. The Bushman and machetes come to mind. Reviews have been mixed to poor on those. Taiwan made usually has very high quality these days. Usually.

I will not buy anything made in China. The Taiwan produced knives from Spyderco and others have always been exceptional.

I only have two CS folders -- a Range Boss and more recently a Swift III -- and both were made in Taiwan and are flawless. I was especially impressed with the Range Boss, given its a lower-end folder. The grinds are flawless, and the stonewashing is exceptional.

Anyone can get a lemon but there's no excuse for poor customer service.

 

[Roguer]

Well at least GSM isn't the Enron of the Knife world like BRK. The CS Marauders I got were up to snuff. Um if they were made when GSM came in or the SABER grind ones were under Thompson.

 

[alou1]

UPDATE:

I just got my 3rd Outdoorsman (2nd RMA) and it is every bit as dull as the first 2. And on the back of the box it says, “Please use caution when handling cold steel products. Knives are extremely sharp.” Is this some kind of pathetic joke? Shit, if a company that prides themselves on delivering razor sharp knives can’t even get 3 random samplings of their $220 knives to cut paper, I highly doubt their blade steel is actually San Mai as they claim. After Cold Steel invited me to review this product on 10/31/24 I did so, giving it a 2 star review detailing the poor product and customer service. 3 weeks later, my review has still not posted. Apparently, Cold Steel only posts positive reviews. What a POS unethical company!

 

[oldmanwilly]

UPDATE:

I just got my 3rd Outdoorsman (2nd RMA) and it is every bit as dull as the first 2. And on the back of the box it says, “Please use caution when handling cold steel products. Knives are extremely sharp.” Is this some kind of pathetic joke? After Cold Steel invited me to review this product on 10/31/24 I did so, giving it a 2 star review detailing the poor product and customer service. 3 weeks later, my review has still not posted. Apparently, Cold Steel only posts positive reviews. What a POS unethical company!

Well that's a major disappointment. To be clear: you don't have 3 of these laying around, you've exchanged them twice and now have your third attempt at an acceptable knife. Correct?

What's your plan now? Will you sharpen it and move on, or will you keep sending these things back until they replace it with a sharp one? If you choose the latter, maybe try to sneak a sticker or something onto the knife or packaging each time you return a knife to make sure they aren't just re-sending you the same lemon in hopes that you'll give up.

 

[DangerZone98]

This is by no means excusing their behavior, but it might be a good opportunity to try and sharpen the blade and see what happens. Most Cold Steels I own sharpen to a pretty good edge and hold it decently (not to the same degree as higher end steels obviously).

Now if the blade can’t hold an edge well and you’re 99% sure your technique isn’t to blame, that’s when I’d ‘give up’ on the knife. Just sell it with a note that the blade isn’t as sharp as Cold Steel claims it to be.

I agree with the others that shipping a knife out dull is unacceptable. You would absolutely complain if your brand new toaster or vacuum cleaner didn’t work outta the box.

 

[alou1]

Well that's a major disappointment. To be clear: you don't have 3 of these laying around, you've exchanged them twice and now have your third attempt at an acceptable knife. Correct?

What's your plan now? Will you sharpen it and move on, or will you keep sending these things back until they replace it with a sharp one? If you choose the latter, maybe try to sneak a sticker or something onto the knife or packaging each time you return a knife to make sure they aren't just re-sending you the same lemon in hopes that you'll give up.

Yes. I’ve exchanged the first 2 and this is the 3rd attempt at getting a usable edge.
Im going to sharpen it and see. Maybe get it tested for hardness because I’m doubting the quality of the steel too given my experience so far. I’m sure CS’s Rockwell ratings for San Mai are floating around the internet. I’ve sharpened it to a useable edge (at least it’ll cut paper). I’m not good enough to make it a razor but I’ll see how it holds up.

 

[DangerZone98]

Yes. I’ve exchanged the first 2 and this is the 3rd attempt at getting a usable edge.
Im going to sharpen it and see. Maybe get it tested for hardness because I’m doubting the quality of the steel too given my experience so far. I’m sure CS’s Rockwell ratings for San Mai are floating around the internet. I’ve sharpened it to a useable edge (at least it’ll cut paper). I’m not good enough to make it a razor but I’ll see how it holds up.

Hardness test is a good idea. Please do update if you learn anything. I’m curious as I’ve never tested my knives for hardness.

 

[Athappyhiker11]

I've bought lots of cold steel knives including this past year a Recon Scout, SRK, SRK-Compact, AD-10, Ultimate Hunter. Also in past 5 years got a Kobun, a Leatherneck SF, a Safe Keeper II, and I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two. All came razor sharp and the only quality gripe I have is the sheath for the SRK didn't fit well. The Recon Scout came so sharp it's scary.

 

[JTR357]

FWIW, every Cold steel folder or fixed blade came to me Spyderco sharp, what I like to call "sticky sharp". One exception was the Gladius, which was to be expected. It wasn't super dull, but it had a really rough edge & a lot of burs on it. I got a working edge on it within 20 minutes with some sandpaper.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

A lot of people will come on here & say "Just sharpen it yourself" but that's not acceptable. When you buy a knife, it should have a WORKING EDGE. Your brand-new knife should be able to do what its primary function is & that's TO CUT! I HATE when I order a brand-new knife & it arrives dull AF.

Working edge doesn't mean much to me if it cuts like crap. They are thick and need reprofiling regardless, atleast to me. Huge part of the pleasure is knowing it's screaming sharp and can cut.