Overbuilt folder vs. FB

E

edgetrip

Joined
Aug 10, 2004
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What are the advantages of an "extreme" folder such as Strider or Farid over a fb.

How would you compare a Strider folder and a Bob Dozier straight personal in the following categories?
functional durability, cutting performance, ease of carry, defensive potential, ease of maintenance?

I don't want to pick on anyone with this thread so feel free to use similiar examples. I chose the two I did because of there popularity on BF.

The only thing I can think of that might require a super beefy folder would be legal restrictions on fixed blades. What else makes them popular?Does the short length balance out the weight and width for carry?

Thanks
 
I'm sure you'll get much better responses than this one, but for me I would say that the only reason (other than fashion) to carry an "extreme" folder over a Fb would be legal restrictions or environment. What I mean is that some people just can't take a fixed blade out of the kitchen. I could pull out a Cuda Maxx in front of some people and not have them bat an eye, but my 2.5" McGowan Nek 2 fixed blade causes the "weapon" alarm to go off. Go figure. A Fixed blade will get you there quicker, and will break before cutting off your fingers. For a comparison from my limited view based on your categories:

Functional durability: Fb has no pivot, washers, or lock to break/wear down.

Cutting performance: Fb gets to the job faster, but really this is a question of different steels. A Fb in 420J will be outcut by almost any folder, and with modern steels this question becomes moot rather quickly.

Ease of carry: Fb can be carried in many more places about the person in a more discreet way than a most folders, and certainly ALL of the "extreme" folders. However, pocket carry is still very easy.

Defense potential: Again, a Fb will get there quickly without any need to open the knife. Of course with modern locks one can trick out a folder to open almost as quickly as a Fb, so this may also be moot.

Ease of Maintenance: Fb wins all day. Nothing to take apart, and no pivot to worry about getting pocket gunk into.

Don't have a strider or a Dozier, so I can't comment on that, but I would say that popularity comes and goes. As for popularity of the "extreme" folder, just think of the SUV market. I mean, are most of these autos going to be used off road at ALL? NO! But its still nice to know that you can do it if you have to. Hope this helps, but it probably just confused the matters.

Sincerely,
Anthony
 
I'm going to agree with SpyderJon on this one.. The main reason I can think of for carrying a folder over a FB is legality. I can carry my AFCK all day in Florida, but if I were to have, say, a Benchmade 210 (2.5" blade) in a pocket sheath, it would be "carrying a concealed weapon". Another example of a stupid law. Supposedly, I can carry a FB openly in Canada, but I've been told that doing so is a good way to get the RCMP called on you.

That having been said, I think most folders are also lighter than fixed blades of similar size, but it's such a minor difference that I don't think anyone but super-weight conscious hikers would pay much attention.
 
I like to carry a folder over a FB edc because it is easier to fold it and put it back in my pocket one handed than it is to resheath a FB. I would prefer to carry a FB for the strength factor, but no matter what I have found that it is not possible to resheath a FB without looking at the sheath. To sum it up, I can deploy, use, and put away a folder faster and safer than I can a FB.
 
Another reason to carry a folder is convenience, you are going to look a little silly wearing a shirt & tie or even a pair of slacks and a polo shirt and a fixed blade
 
MW740:
You raise a good point about resheathing. On the other hand, try a Spyderco Vagabond..... just flip the 'sheath' / cover with your thumb. Voila.... instant sheath, all together, place in pocket, you're good to go.
 
I think looking silly w/a Fb vs. a folder is all about the knife myself, and whether or not it fits. Obviously, a tactical wonder knife isn't going to look right w/nice clothes, but a nice natural handled Fb carried discretely (maybe in waistband) wouldn't look any more out of place than some folders people choose to take with them. To my mind, if the line of the knife doesn't stick out, then nobody complains. Its when you carry a Dundee rig w/a suit that you run into problems. I've worn my Tichbourne w/a suit (ironwood handles) and NOBODY has ever said anything.
 
The only reason I carry a folder is because it is legal. Otherwise I would always carry a fixed blade. Why would I want to carry a knife that bends in the middle if I had a choice?
 
Asking myself the same questions at the moment as I play with my new Spyderco Manix - it definetly crosses the line into fixed blade substitute.

For me the main advantage is convenience - being able to easily slip the knife into the waistband of the trousers and draw/open/close/stow all one handed. In my amphibious lifestyle I don't often wear a belt or heavy clothing with lots of pockets. Still I suppose a well made FB sheath with clip could do the same thing.
 
The original Strider AR/GB series folders were made specifically because many LEO's and Military folks are banned by regulations from carrying a fixed blade knife, so they built the GB/AR's to perform like a high quality fixed blade while staying in compliance with the rules. This has also been a positive for civilians who are restricted from carrying a concealed fixed blade, but need a heavy use knife.
 
Legality based on jurisdiction aside, strictly from a practical standpoint, I think ease of carry is the only advantage a folder has. In actual use, I prefer a fixed blade(and do carry one sometimes) but I typically carry a folder...because I spend a lot more time carrying than I do using. Plus, on most of the things I use a knife for the strength and reliablity, even choice of blade size and geometry, all weaknesses of the folder, aren't a huge issue.
I'll carry a suitable fixed blade any time I expect heavy or extended use, or any time I'm in the woods where I don't know what my knife might be called on to do, but that's not an every day thing.
 
I carry and use both a fixed blade, and a (few) folders. I am talking simultaneously. I would say I get equal use out of both varieties.
 
Folders are cool toys, I carry a couple as my edc all the time in addition to a couple of fixed blades.

However for serious work AND for that ever present unfortunate chance I need to defend my life with a knife, I will contnue to reach for my fixed blade knife.

Fixed blades are stronger, you don't need to fumble around trying to open it(in the case of self defense, at a time when you're adrenalin is pumping and you're very likely to drop whatever is in your hands), and they're quicker to employ aswell(Grab, Yank, Shank-as Kevin McClung puts it--in the case of self defense again). Also, with fixed blades, since it's one piece, obviously there's no moving parts, hence no mechanism that can get dirt into it that will keep the knife from working. Keep it simple stupid!

edited to add: I remember reading about a guy in Hawaii who when confronted by two would-be car jackers reached for his folder(a strider if I remember correctly). Sadly he soon realised he couldn't actually open the folder due to, believe it or not, a small coin getting stuck in the liner and keeping the blade from opening.

That's one example of something that obviously wouldn't happen with a fixed blade.
That's not to say folders don't have there place, and like I said I really enjoy mine. Especially for those people who don't have a choice, due to laws banning fixed blades, thank goodness for folders.
 
a good fixed blade is hands down the way to be, if you don't mind the inconviniance. as far as looking out of place goes all you need is some discretion. i carry a bm 940, an emerson commander, and a dozier fixed blade. very few people notice any of them enough to coment, and often even cops don't see them.
and on the topic of coins and knives. i had a friend pull his commander from his pocket and shoot a dime halfway across the room. it didn't interfer with the operation of the knife but it was in there. so even the ultra high speed wave feature can't over come the stray change issue. (not that that means i don't love the wave to death. it just means that my right front pocket contains nothing but knife. :) )
 
I overcame the spare change issue by keeping my change and fingernail trimmers in my left pocket.

Sometimes the low-tech solution is THE way to go. :D

Were I to carry a FB, I would probably go with something smallish... Busse AD or something from Graham Knives. I've even seriously considered a BM Activator.
 
I don't really think it is fair to compare an overbuilt folder, such as a Strider, to a fixed blade such as a Dozier Straight Personal. They are both great knive, but very different. The Dozier is a real cutter with a thinner blade material, while the Striders are general purpose beater knives. So the Dozier will obviously win out in any cutting comparision, unless it is cutting apart ammo cans.

As for the other aspect, it goes that any FB will be stronger than a folder, but the Strider knives come about as close as possible to a fixed blade. The thing to keep in mind here is that a folder is designed to fold at some point. That will be the weakest point in it, and that would most likely fail before the knife itself does. So if we are comparing a FB with a similiar blade thickness to the Strider AR for example, then the folder lock/pivot would likely be first to fail in some way. However if we compare as you suggest an AR to a Dozier Personal then I feel it might be the Personal the fails first, depending on wht kind of stressing you do. As long as you are not directly trying to force the lock to close, the AR would have much more metal to force around than the Dozier.

Any folder gets better marks for ease of carry IMHO, just clip it to a pocket and go. A folder needs some more careful consideration. Horizontal or vertical sheath? Belt or neck carry? Small of back? Inside your waistband? Possibly even in a pocket for a smaller blade such as the Personal.
 
at some point an "overbuilt" folder will become so overbuilt it isn't comfie to carry. My Extrema Ratio M.P.C. is like that. It is such a monster that it is hard to conveniently carry in the pocket. The big advantage of a folder to me is portability, it can be put into the pocket. But the really overbuilt monster folders aren't so easy to carry in the pocket and to me they start to defeat the chief advantage of folders. I find that the Strider SMF works for pocket carry, but it isn't as heavy and big as the ER.
 
Thanks for the responses. The fact that Strider built there folders to deal with military/LE restrictions answers my main question.
The Dozier personal might not have been the best example for my purposes but it seems like based on all the comments that a small fb designed for heavy use would beat out a hard use folder in all but ease of carry and depending on the folder [perhaps even in this category.
 
First let me say that I challenge the notion that a fixed-blade is stronger than a folder.

It really does depend on the knives themselves.
After all, a cheap "ginsu type" kitchen knife is a fixed-blade, but it is certainly not stronger than a Spyderco Chinook.

Allen.
 
Allen, of course it depends on the fixed and the folder, but when people ask these general questions, they normally mean "If I were to buy a fixed blade of a given toughness level and quality, and buy a folder of the approximate same level and size, which would give out first?" The "similar quality level" part is assumed by me, and by most people. If you start comparing a 99 cent paring knife from the flea market to your Strider folder, of course the Strider is going to win out in measures of toughness. On the other hand, if you compare a Busse AD to a Strider folder, the AD will almost certainly win.

Edgetrip, if you can legally carry a concealed fb, check out some of the knives designed for pocket sheath carry by Graham Knives.
http://www.grahamknives.com/fixedbladepocketknives.htm
OKay, just noticed that you're in Florida. You can legally open-carry a fb, and you can carry one concealed with a CCW. I'm not sure which the "pocket fixed blades" would count as (you can see quite a bit of the handle, but the knife still is mostly in your pocket), so my recommendation is to get a CCW. That way, if it's open, it's legal, and if it's concealed, it's legal. :D
 
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