Overseas manufacturing???

S

scotsmanspride

Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
639
First off thanks you spyderco for all the fantastic knives i have owned and will continue to purchase from you however....I am at a crossroads with many knife companies in the regard of WHY are they mfg. Some items overseas and some here in the U.S. If it is the argument that it saves money and therefore gives the consumer a more affordable product then why arent all of their knives being made overseas. I would like for spyderco and many other companies to bring the mfg. Back to the us 100% and give some of the unemployed americans who do want to work jobs. I recently looked at purchasing a sage 2 but alas a taiwan mfg knife. I passed. Yeah i know it is a great knife but i will gladly as will many americans pay a little extra to help ourselves. What ever happened to having some pride in ourselves instead of pushing china and other countries to bettere themselves and put them on the fasttrack to being ahead of us in the global economy. Sure i know business is business and the little guy like me wont change how most companies do business but in the end its my .02
 
There are several threads just like the one freedom pointed out in the forums already. Sal has responded to this question numerous times.
 
I really do hate to say it but I wonder if the reason is quality. I'm beginning to think the Spyderco knives made in Taiwan couldn't be made better in Japan or the USA if they tried. Just a guess.
 
One point Spyderco insists on is that, domestic or overseas, the quality has to be there.

Also, part of the economics of knife sales is access. We talk big about we would pay a little more for quality, we would buy a great design that's been discontinued, but the wider public does not.

So manufacturers do have to place their products in the Walmarts of the world, to get the less sophisticated buyers to see them, and to learn about the company. Big box stores want low prices. That leads to a lot of outsourcing.

Actual production capacity is not easily come by. If an excellent facility exists in Taiwan, it is economically safer to have them build some models. Enlarging US plants too fast, taking on too many workers, leaves the company at serious risk if the economy takes a downturn. So growth needs to be measured.

One more point, like it or not. Many overseas nations, companies, people are our natural partners. I'm not talking about globalization, I'm talking about a coalition of like-minded, effective businessmen and workers. KAI is Japanese and owns their own Chinese factory. Their division Kershaw is practically speaking an American company.

We are all in this together. By working with the best of these economic allies, we all end up with a stronger coalition, able to produce what we want, with a gradual improvement of jobs as well as products for all of us.

Isolationism is literally narrow-minded.
 
scotsmanspride said:
.I am at a crossroads with many knife companies in the regard of WHY are they mfg. Some items overseas and some here in the U.S.
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Certainly understand the point you're making.

Here's the thing specific to Spyderco. The first Spydercos were completely off-shore models. All of them. There was no manufacturing in the U.S. until the company enjoyed some success from the models that were manufactured abroad.

It wasn't until the manufacturing facility in Golden was built that there became such a thing as USA-made Spydercos.

Now, the issue is that there simply isn't the capacity in Golden to add many more models.

So as the company grows through an ever-expanding and dynamic product line supported through both domestic manufacturing and global partnerships, the domestic resources will grow as well.

It's just a little different story than "it once was made here, and then all of a sudden wasn't." As I understand it anyway, someone please feel free to correct my Spyderco history if I'm way off base.
 
Why do folks assume that making a product here will only increase the cost a little bit as in that the OP would be willing to "pay a little extra"? If it were strictly a cost factor I doubt any company would bother with overseas production if they were only saving a little bit.

The fact is that if it made sense for Spyderco to manufacture a given product in the U.S. then I'm sure they would. Instead of wanting them to bring back a product that they have already determined needs to be made abroad why not buy more of the models that are made here?
 
Taiwan Spydercos are of superior quality to the Japanese, USA and Chinese models. There I said it. I find it funny how people see japan on a knife and assume that its good, but when they see taiwan they cringe. For me, I couldn't care less if it was made in the USA, If the product is good quality then I buy it, fair and simple. Maybe I should be a little more patriotic and buy only Canadian manufactured knives cause USA is taking all our jobs. :p
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Also, part of the economics of knife sales is access. We talk big about we would pay a little more for quality, we would buy a great design that's been discontinued, but the wider public does not.

So manufacturers do have to place their products in the Walmarts of the world, to get the less sophisticated buyers to see them, and to learn about the company. Big box stores want low prices. That leads to a lot of outsourcing.
Click to expand...

Most people shop price and don't really have a clue what a good knife really is because they have never seen one.
 
Wait, i just realized the op's name is scotsmanspride. Why isn't he complaining that spydercos aren't made in Scotland? If it's not Scottish it's crap!
 
freedoom said:
Wait, i just realized the op's name is scotsmanspride. Why isn't he complaining that spydercos aren't made in Scotland? If it's not Scottish it's crap!
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Because spyderco is not a scottish company!!! What is it that makes people unable to understand that outsourcing is bad , quality product or not !
 
softrockrenegade said:
What is it that makes people unable to understand that outsourcing is bad , quality product or not !
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What makes people unable to understand is that it is not bad.
You simply need to enlarge your circle of insiders to see this:

He drew a circle that shut me out —
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took him in.

-- Edwin Markham

144px-ApollianGasketNested_2-20svg.png
 
Hi Scottsman,

Thanx much for the knid words. Sorry you feel that way about our Sage models.

While I cannot speak for other manufactuers, I can tell you that Spyderco makes the Sage models in Taiwan because of:

1. Exceptional build quality.
2. Capacity to make them at all.
3. Provides funds to grow our US factory. (USA jobs)
4. Steel, G-10, clips and fasteners are USA made and shipped to Taiwan. (USA jobs)
5. Our people purchase the materials, ship to Golden, then ship to Taiwan. (USA jobs)
6. We employ US workers to design, procure monitor their production, quality control, marketing, distributing, shipping product (USA jobs).

Hope that helps.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Scottsman,

Thanx much for the knid words. Sorry you feel that way about our Sage models.

While I cannot speak for other manufactuers, I can tell you that Spyderco makes the Sage models in Taiwan because of:

1. Exceptional build quality.
2. Capacity to make them at all.
3. Provides funds to grow our US factory. (USA jobs)
4. Steel, G-10, clips and fasteners are USA made and shipped to Taiwan. (USA jobs)
5. Our people purchase the materials, ship to Golden, then ship to Taiwan. (USA jobs)
6. We employ US workers to design, procure monitor their production, quality control, marketing, distributing, shipping product (USA jobs).

Hope that helps.

sal
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That sums it up very well right there. :thumbup:
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Scottsman,

Thanx much for the knid words. Sorry you feel that way about our Sage models.

While I cannot speak for other manufactuers, I can tell you that Spyderco makes the Sage models in Taiwan because of:

1. Exceptional build quality.
2. Capacity to make them at all.
3. Provides funds to grow our US factory. (USA jobs)
4. Steel, G-10, clips and fasteners are USA made and shipped to Taiwan. (USA jobs)
5. Our people purchase the materials, ship to Golden, then ship to Taiwan. (USA jobs)
6. We employ US workers to design, procure monitor their production, quality control, marketing, distributing, shipping product (USA jobs).

Hope that helps.

sal
Click to expand...

Ultimately i am still left scratching my heed( scottish joke):rolleyes: I know minimum wages are less for the overseas "assembly" however it really would not raise the cost too terribly much if at all by the time the cost for shipping materials back and forth was removed.
I do however understand that the majority of people puchasing the knives are not as obsessed as us on the forums but just something that i felt i needed to bring up. BTW thank you again sal for the great products and service and thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.
 
scotsmanspride said:
Ultimately i am still left scratching my heed( scottish joke):rolleyes: I know minimum wages are less for the overseas "assembly" however it really would not raise the cost too terribly much if at all by the time the cost for shipping materials back and forth was removed.
I do however understand that the majority of people puchasing the knives are not as obsessed as us on the forums but just something that i felt i needed to bring up. BTW thank you again sal for the great products and service and thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.
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You need to re-read the quote below from earlier in this thread. You can't just "turn on" additional capacity as if you were flipping a switch on. Especially in the current economy, there are long lead times and considerable risk.

Actual production capacity is not easily come by. If an excellent facility exists in Taiwan, it is economically safer to have them build some models. Enlarging US plants too fast, taking on too many workers, leaves the company at serious risk if the economy takes a downturn. So growth needs to be measured.
Click to expand...
 
scotsmanspride said:
Ultimately i am still left scratching my heed( scottish joke):rolleyes: I know minimum wages are less for the overseas "assembly" however it really would not raise the cost too terribly much if at all by the time the cost for shipping materials back and forth was removed. .
Click to expand...

Hi Scottsman,

let me scratch your head.

Wages in Taiwan are about the same as the US or a tad higher. Their engineers, knifemakers, CNC operators, grinders, etc. live as we do. It's the US Dollar / Taiwan Dollar valuation that makes the difference.

Our US factory, (while still growing) is making as many knives as we can as fast as we can. Who else in America could make them for us to our quality standards? Our Japanese makers could not take on the project of so many different locks, each re-engineered for each model and each with different exotic handle materials. It's a tough line to make, especially with a new lock each year.

It was use this particular maker in Taiwan or not have the model available at all for our discriminating customers.

scotsmanspride said:
I do however understand that the majority of people puchasing the knives are not as obsessed as us on the forums but just something that i felt i needed to bring up. BTW thank you again sal for the great products and service and thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.
Click to expand...

It's a good question and one that I believe all Americans need to be concerned about. That's why we continue to grow our US factory rather than just outsource all to China and make a lot more money.

It's just my opinion; We must build product in America or we will forget how. (Afghanistan went from producing female Doctors to illiterate women in just two generations). We must grow food in America, enough to feed us all by at least double. We need to.........................Ok, off my bandwagon. I think you know what i mean.

sal
 
I was in the same boat as the OP (except the knife that did it for me was the upcoming Navaja) until I was pointed to several of Sal's posts on this subject.

In general, my rule is it has to be made in the US or a country with comparable labor/environmental laws (de facto, not simply de jure, because even China techinically has environmental laws), or there is no alternative (like with certain computer components).

From the sounds of it, the Taiwanese making knives for Spyderco are getting a fair wage and were selected for being skilled and being able to produce in the needed quanities (as someone who has chased down custom made car parts, I can appreciate that there are companies that can make 5000 knives of 1 design but not 1000 knives each of 5 different designs).

I actually dislike a little bit that the US Dollar/Taiwan dollar valuation makes the knives effectively cheaper, because that's something that out of the American worker's hands, and he can't be expected to compete with it. That said, from the sounds of it, the American facilities that can make the product are at capacity.

End result: I, someone who doesn't own a toaster because they're all made in China, plan to buy a Navaja.
 
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