Considering the weight distribution of the average khuk, I imagine that it would make a particularly good knife for non-lethal use. However, in all honesty, I think that if I believed myself to be in danger, I would go for the quickest, surest way to neutralize the threat and would use whatever weapon I had in the most lethal manner possible.
-
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PAGE 4(+) Home Invasion Robbery: What Would You Do? ( Continued )
- Thread starter Rusty
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It is hard for me to make a blanket statementlike that one. I have always thought that you must look at a confrontation like a stair way you always want to be one step above your oppent/aggressor, but let them decide the amount of force that must be supplied to subdue them. Like i said before I would hate to have to kill someone invading my home, but I am prefectly prepared to do so if it means protecting my life and the lives of my family.
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Nothing says love quite like a sharp knife... Now if my wife only believed that.
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Nothing says love quite like a sharp knife... Now if my wife only believed that.
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- 8,911
I have a problem balancing dispassion, overreaction and fear, and later hate.
Hurting people is unnatural. But there are times when you have to be prepared to do that. You need to be mentally prepared to do so, and already have made plans, as upsetting as it may be to think about the kind of things that entails.
Black and White, Shoot/Don't Shoot, is easy. But what if, like happened to Matt, it isn't a narcoterrorist Charlie Manson but another person? Screwed up, drunk, abreacting to medication? Even a blow to a leg that breaks it and immobilizes the threat feel obscene to consider.
It's hard for me to deal with the part of myself that can do those things, even out of neccessity. Rather than accepting that part of me it's easier to hate the person who "made me do it". But like the old saying, hating someone is like drinking a glass of poison and waiting for your enemy to die from it.
For that matter, there's the saw about "it's easier to convince a jury that you didn't shoot him too many times than it is to convince him you didn't cut him too much. So what happens if you use a deadly weapon for a less lethal blow?
It isn't so much fun, but shouldn't we be at least be giving lip service to other forums if any that deal with better locks, escape routes, safe rooms, etc?
End of diarrhea of the mouth, I hope. At least we have now progressed to a flaming folder. Maybe we'll be on Page 15 of this topic and thread No. 5 and still going when Bill and Yangdu get back.
Should we have Bill bring back HI Boar spears and halberd's with him?
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Ma'am, I DID NOT call you an unfit mother.
The judge did that in this court order.
Hurting people is unnatural. But there are times when you have to be prepared to do that. You need to be mentally prepared to do so, and already have made plans, as upsetting as it may be to think about the kind of things that entails.
Black and White, Shoot/Don't Shoot, is easy. But what if, like happened to Matt, it isn't a narcoterrorist Charlie Manson but another person? Screwed up, drunk, abreacting to medication? Even a blow to a leg that breaks it and immobilizes the threat feel obscene to consider.
It's hard for me to deal with the part of myself that can do those things, even out of neccessity. Rather than accepting that part of me it's easier to hate the person who "made me do it". But like the old saying, hating someone is like drinking a glass of poison and waiting for your enemy to die from it.
For that matter, there's the saw about "it's easier to convince a jury that you didn't shoot him too many times than it is to convince him you didn't cut him too much. So what happens if you use a deadly weapon for a less lethal blow?
It isn't so much fun, but shouldn't we be at least be giving lip service to other forums if any that deal with better locks, escape routes, safe rooms, etc?
End of diarrhea of the mouth, I hope. At least we have now progressed to a flaming folder. Maybe we'll be on Page 15 of this topic and thread No. 5 and still going when Bill and Yangdu get back.
Should we have Bill bring back HI Boar spears and halberd's with him?
------------------
Ma'am, I DID NOT call you an unfit mother.
The judge did that in this court order.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
Serious considerations. I think it is a good and proper thing to have as many decisions made beforehand as possible. I have tried to do this.
As Rusty so wisely pointed out it does not seem natural (unless you are deranged) to harm another but if it becomes necessary then you must be prepared to act. You have so little time for decisions when the actual event transpires that pre-decisions are almost a necessity. I have it boiled down to this.
If my loved ones or myself were in a life threatening situation I would not hesitate to put a .38 round into the upper torso of the agressor and hope that he did not die. Or, a disabling khukuri strike and hope he did not bleed to death.
If the situation was not life threatening I'd play it by ear and try to emerge with the least possible harm to all involved.
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Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
As Rusty so wisely pointed out it does not seem natural (unless you are deranged) to harm another but if it becomes necessary then you must be prepared to act. You have so little time for decisions when the actual event transpires that pre-decisions are almost a necessity. I have it boiled down to this.
If my loved ones or myself were in a life threatening situation I would not hesitate to put a .38 round into the upper torso of the agressor and hope that he did not die. Or, a disabling khukuri strike and hope he did not bleed to death.
If the situation was not life threatening I'd play it by ear and try to emerge with the least possible harm to all involved.
------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
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- 34,096
Double post. AOL bumped me off in middle of the transfer.
[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 01-27-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 01-27-2000).]
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2000
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- 488
Very good and wise words from all. Making the decsion is much like an if A then B situation. In other words I would not use deadly force unless I had no other option.
BTW: The spears do sound like a good idea to me.
Matt
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Nothing says love quite like a sharp knife... Now if my wife only believed that.
BTW: The spears do sound like a good idea to me.
Matt
------------------
Nothing says love quite like a sharp knife... Now if my wife only believed that.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
- Messages
- 651
I guess it depends on your background and training. In my case I have encountered alot of messed up people around the world and had to take action. Sometimes a simple ___ kicking was needed, but others were very messy. I don't like to hurt people, but I train for the worst case scenario. In Sulu, P.I. if you got into a knife fight and ended up stabbing a guy, you would still be dead. They would take a stab inorder to get a decapitation out of it. I still prefer large blades, but here in the U.S. many have firearms. In law enforcement an escalation of force is sometimes needed, but when I'm at home I wouldn't hesitate using my Khukuri or Barong on a home invader. My HK MK 23 in one hand and my edge weapon in the other.
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I think there are about 2-3 ways a kukri can be used to subdue without wounding or just break limbs.
The attacker has grabbed say an arm and you would use a leverage technique to get him on the ground.
The butt of the kukri as a striking surface in either a striking or grappling context. You could still kill the man but it depends where you hit.
Perhaps another "alternative" is the military entrenching shovel by Cold Steel. Using the flat of the blade it becomes a baton.
However, this is more of an issue of training and going back to home invasion. If you have the time, I'd get a Sirupati or the lightest or fastest knife you can wield because now we're getting into mult opponents and possible hostage situations.
Vampire Hunter, James Keating has a tape on throwing bowies, tomahawks, and kukris. Vladimir Vasiliev has a tape on throwing razor blades, knifes, bayonets, and spikes.
[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 01-28-2000).]
The attacker has grabbed say an arm and you would use a leverage technique to get him on the ground.
The butt of the kukri as a striking surface in either a striking or grappling context. You could still kill the man but it depends where you hit.
Perhaps another "alternative" is the military entrenching shovel by Cold Steel. Using the flat of the blade it becomes a baton.
However, this is more of an issue of training and going back to home invasion. If you have the time, I'd get a Sirupati or the lightest or fastest knife you can wield because now we're getting into mult opponents and possible hostage situations.
Vampire Hunter, James Keating has a tape on throwing bowies, tomahawks, and kukris. Vladimir Vasiliev has a tape on throwing razor blades, knifes, bayonets, and spikes.
[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 01-28-2000).]
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
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- 651
Multiple opponents: In my home I usually keep my Sundang handy. This bad boy has a double edge 19.5" blade and weighs only 18 oz. . This was favored by the Moros for multiple opponents, but for a single opponent, the Barong is used. Light, fast, and short.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 1999
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- 406
I heard that Vladimir guy wasn't all he's cracked up to be. How good are his tapes? I'm a reasonable thrower, at work I can make a tortilla chip cutting knife stick into cardboard boxes at 20 paces. I know you're not sure what I'm talking about but it's not that easy. The knives have weights at the top of the blade and are fairly heavy.
As for non-leathal striking, I always go back to my training with a ball bat in little league! Really, if he tries to block or grab it, alter the course of the swing and break his arm or rip off his thumb. I've honestly seen this done, it works. I recommend an aluminum teeball bat.
- D
Depends on which tapes. I've done some reviews on some of them. I'm a knife person and I'd skip the knife series, the TRS series, and possibly the improvised weapons. The carjack defense tape is interesting.
Vlad does cover throwing and his students are good at it but the price for his tapes is rather steep. BTW, I am selling his Gun Disarm tape.
Vlad does cover throwing and his students are good at it but the price for his tapes is rather steep. BTW, I am selling his Gun Disarm tape.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
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- 34,096
More good input. The more you know the better off you are.
------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
- Joined
- Mar 8, 1999
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- 8,911
About a page back, I asked about a spontoon. Here is the link to the one I had seen.
http://www.atlantacutlery.com
When the link takes you to the ACC homepage, click on the button on the left, second from the top, that says "Online Store".
That will take you to a page listing catalogs. Scroll down and the last catalog is "Axes,Tomahawks, and Throwing Knives". Click on that.
When that page comes up, scroll down to the item listed as "Bleeding Heart Pipe Tomahawk". That will brink up the listed object, but also pictures of 3 'hawks and then the bottom is of what they call a spontoon.
Notice the spear shaped blade perpendicular to the shaft and what look to me like curls at the base of the blade forming a fleur-de-lis confirming the Khazar Kid's comment about french trade origin.
( Hey Khazar - is that any relation to the Kabar or Khazak tribes that the Magyars intermingled with before moving on to the steppes? )
For the very last time this post has been:
[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 01-30-2000).]
http://www.atlantacutlery.com
When the link takes you to the ACC homepage, click on the button on the left, second from the top, that says "Online Store".
That will take you to a page listing catalogs. Scroll down and the last catalog is "Axes,Tomahawks, and Throwing Knives". Click on that.
When that page comes up, scroll down to the item listed as "Bleeding Heart Pipe Tomahawk". That will brink up the listed object, but also pictures of 3 'hawks and then the bottom is of what they call a spontoon.
Notice the spear shaped blade perpendicular to the shaft and what look to me like curls at the base of the blade forming a fleur-de-lis confirming the Khazar Kid's comment about french trade origin.
( Hey Khazar - is that any relation to the Kabar or Khazak tribes that the Magyars intermingled with before moving on to the steppes? )
For the very last time this post has been:
[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 01-30-2000).]
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:
Rusty ever since you brought up the subject of the spontoon I have been searching my brain for one of the famous plains chiefs that carried one of those and it just won't come too me. Some of them were really quite beautiful.
You might do a search for Crazy Crow. They have a catalog that also has one I believe. Some of thier 'hawks are made from cast iron I believe. They may call them cast steel and even though they may fit the requirement they are pretty easy to file. I have one o thier "turtle" 'hawks.
I also have an old bronze 'hawk
that is the pipe style with the heart in it. I got it for my b'day 42 years ago and was told that they were pourd in the original English trade axe molds. It isn't the bleeding or weeping heart style.
A friend of ours in Minnesota had his grandfathers 'hawk when I was about 13. He was
Nez Perce and his g'father had carried the 'hawk with Chief Joseph. He had it nickel plated to keep it from furher deterioration. he stem was the rectangular type and was a beautiful wood with brass tacks. It was the wide bladed pipe style and also had the plain heart. I was told that those were of French origin.
If I remember right some of the spontoons and definitely the large round edged with a back hook were of Spanish origin although that would blow the Fleur d Lis on the French origins.
You are much better at history than me.
------------------
>>>>---¥vsa---->®
If you mix milk of magnesia with vodka and orange juice do you get a phillips screwdriver?
Khukuri FAQ
Rusty ever since you brought up the subject of the spontoon I have been searching my brain for one of the famous plains chiefs that carried one of those and it just won't come too me. Some of them were really quite beautiful.
You might do a search for Crazy Crow. They have a catalog that also has one I believe. Some of thier 'hawks are made from cast iron I believe. They may call them cast steel and even though they may fit the requirement they are pretty easy to file. I have one o thier "turtle" 'hawks.
I also have an old bronze 'hawk
that is the pipe style with the heart in it. I got it for my b'day 42 years ago and was told that they were pourd in the original English trade axe molds. It isn't the bleeding or weeping heart style.
A friend of ours in Minnesota had his grandfathers 'hawk when I was about 13. He was
Nez Perce and his g'father had carried the 'hawk with Chief Joseph. He had it nickel plated to keep it from furher deterioration. he stem was the rectangular type and was a beautiful wood with brass tacks. It was the wide bladed pipe style and also had the plain heart. I was told that those were of French origin.
If I remember right some of the spontoons and definitely the large round edged with a back hook were of Spanish origin although that would blow the Fleur d Lis on the French origins.
You are much better at history than me.
------------------
>>>>---¥vsa---->®
If you mix milk of magnesia with vodka and orange juice do you get a phillips screwdriver?
Khukuri FAQ
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