Paging Dr. Octagon

[Agent_H]

Several months ago I stopped by an army surplus store and they had a barrel of handles in the back. They were, for the most part, really thick and some were pretty uneven looking . I picked up a 28” single bit handle that was really over-sized that I used to hang this axe and am satisfied with its soundness for a tool handle.

The other one I picked up is 36" and was like the first – too thick overall to just hang something on it without going at it somehow. Being that I am on an octagonal handle kick I’ve been trying my hand at octagonalizing on my own. This is my first attempt.

Anyone have any tips or tricks to running a spokeshave or what to look out for when octagonalizing?
Wish I had a before shot but I wasn’t really planning on it turning out well to be honest.
Here is what it looks like at this point:

Oh, my wife was joking last night about me being concerned about the wrong “curves”. This was sitting on my vice here when I got up this morning. She can be pretty funny sometimes. At least she supports my habits/hobbies that keep me around the house lol.

This is a head that has yet to be cleaned up but I set it there for reference. The handle is 36” and the kerf cut was only about an inch deep. Kind of think these were seconds that the store picked up cheap and was selling cheap. Haven't looked at grain orientation from the head down yet. The orientation at the swell-end is about 45 degrees. Didn't seem important as I'm not concerned to mess up a $4 handle as an experiment.

Wood-gurus - my spokeshave is sharp yet every 6" or so I have to reverse my approach to my draws. If not, it tears out the grain. Does this indicate that the grain is running-out? I mean, instead of staying the 45 degrees (which I assume would let me draw the shave for a longer span/entire handle), could it be dropping the grain every 6 "'s of handle just to pick up orientation again?

I prefer a little shorter handle for use but maybe I will change my mind.

Anyway, any input is appreciated. It’s still dark here but can get some better shots outside later if it helps with making a general assessment.

*"Paging Dr. Octagon" is from a song - not a particularly good one but seemed appropriate.

 

[sloth357]

Blue flowers... Nice wife

 

[Square_peg]

Superb! Great looking curves on that haft. And I love your wife's sense of humor.

Octagons look good and feel good.

 

[rjdankert]

. . .
Anyone have any tips or tricks to running a spokeshave or what to look out for when octagonalizing?
. . .

I get tear out in my projects as well. I suspect anyone who has ever tried to shape wood has experienced some sort of tear out.

I posted a couple of videos yesterday here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1233816-COTS-Projecst-Thread/page6
Shows a lot about wood grain.

Here is a shot from the second video:


The grain in the piece runs straight along the length of the stock. He is cutting "down hill". Going the other way "up hill" risks getting the blade between the long fibers. This can cause tear out or worse dig in and split the piece.

He is using a draw knife but the I've seen this same advice for using edged tools in instructional books and videos for spokeshaves, planes (hand and powered), carving knives, etc. With that said, I have seen expert carvers cut "up hill".

If a piece of wood is just plain stubborn (funky grain) I would switch to rasps, files, sandpaper, or scrapers.

 

[quinton]

In my opinion, a spokeshave only has limited use in crafting a haft, especially a curved haft.. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

Actually, all my hafts start as octagons. Making octagons first, is the only way I have ever found to make a "perfect" oval by hand.

 

[cityofthesouth]

In my opinion, a spokeshave only has limited use in crafting a haft, especially a curved haft.. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

Actually, all my hafts start as octagons. Making octagons first, is the only way I have ever found to make a "perfect" oval by hand.

Same here, in fact, I expect that is how octagonal handles came into existence. Rasps and files all the way if you don't have a belt sander.

 

[quinton]

Same here, in fact, I expect that is how octagonal handles came into existence. Rasps and files all the way if you don't have a belt sander.

I would say you are correct! I had never seen an octagon haft as a boy.. but, the very first one I made became a hybrid haft, octagon transitioning to traditional on a hatchet..

 

[Agent_H]

Superb! Great looking curves on that haft. And I love your wife's sense of humor.

Octagons look good and feel good.

Thanks Square_peg. This axe and a pulaski you did is what got me going trying out octagonal handles. CityOfTheSouth also had one going where he left the shoulder and swell more rounded with octagonal shaping on the rest - good stuff.
Rjdankert – appreciate the video – while he is making chairs, you are right in that it fits working with handles for sure.

In my opinion, a spokeshave only has limited use in crafting a haft, especially a curved haft.. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

Actually, all my hafts start as octagons. Making octagons first, is the only way I have ever found to make a "perfect" oval by hand.

For sure. I just like using the spokeshave – the last half of the work on it so far was with rasps. There is a lot of cross-over of skills/tactics with general wood-working.

Appreciate the discussion – I learn something new every time.

I’m thinking I’ll try that no-name head on it. It’s the largest one “in stock” that I have at the moment. Was 3 and ¾ lbs common? Only asking at it weighs 3lbs 10 5/8oz. It looks like someone already removed mushrooming and some bit from sharpening but how much steel would that equate to – to still leave that much over 3 and a half?

Blue flowers... Nice wife

I think this is a kind comment and really good advice Sloth. :thumbup:

 

[rjdankert]

. . . especially a curved haft.. . .

Even a "straight" handle has curves. So you will end up cutting across the long fibers. Unless you hang the head on a board.

. .. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

. . .

This is the start of my first hickory handle. I roughed it out with a band saw, then tried a chisel, draw knife, and rasp. I found I prefer the rasp.

. . .

Actually, all my hafts start as octagons. Making octagons first, is the only way I have ever found to make a "perfect" oval by hand.

Here in one of the videos I referenced, after he makes his spindle blanks square, he then makes them octagonal for the same reason.


He will finish the spindles with a spoke shave. Note that when he was making the blanks square he made sure the grain was dead straight.

 

[quinton]

For sure. I just like using the spokeshave – the last half of the work on it so far was with rasps. There is a lot of cross-over of skills/tactics with general wood-working.

Nothing wrong with that! I like using a finely tuned spokeshave as well. Beautiful work by the way..

 

[Square_peg]

In my opinion, a spokeshave only has limited use in crafting a haft, especially a curved haft.. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

You'll never get sharp crisp corners on an octagon with a rasp. Only a blade does that.

 

[idaho_crosscut]

You'll never get sharp crisp corners on an octagon with a rasp. Only a blade does that.

I am not sure i would want any crispier corners than i could get with my 'shoeing rasp. the flat side leaves some pretty damn sharp corners as it is. I always take all the sharpness out of even those edges with sandpaper so i don't burn my hands up when chopping. but of course, different strokes, as they say

 

[ICS]

I have found the best piece of kit for doing my racing axe handles for competition is a horse shoeing rasp. I have been using them for over twenty years now and you only need to follow the fine rasping with some sand paper. As for the octagon sides, there is no advantage in fact the sharper corners are easier to chip and damage and no one likes splinters.

 

[quinton]

You'll never get sharp crisp corners on an octagon with a rasp. Only a blade does that.

Totally not so!

 

[Oxbow]

In my opinion, a spokeshave only has limited use in crafting a haft, especially a curved haft.. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

Well, I disagree with this. They're called spokeshaves because they were used for shaping wagon wheel spokes (among many other uses). The difference between a wagon spoke and an axe handle is not a hell of a lot. Close to the same size, similar shaping requirements, and they are even made of hickory. The only big difference from the days of old that I can see is that wagon spokes and axe handles were typically made from riven wood instead of the board stock like all commercial handles are today. A wagon spoke with grain run-out would have the wheelwright's customers up in his face quickly.

 

[quinton]

Well, I disagree with this. They're called spokeshaves because they were used for shaping wagon wheel spokes (among many other uses). The difference between a wagon spoke and an axe handle is not a hell of a lot. Close to the same size, similar shaping requirements, and they are even made of hickory. The only big difference from the days of old that I can see is that wagon spokes and axe handles were typically made from riven wood instead of the board stock like all commercial handles are today. A wagon spoke with grain run-out would have the wheelwright's customers up in his face quickly.

I've been making hafts for better than 30 years. Early on I would reach over and grab a spokeshave when shaping one, but, I would quickly lay it down in favor of a rasp, or scraper...I don't even reach for a shave anymore while shaping hafts..as was pointed out, even a straight one has curves that makes a shave limited in use.. Now, I will say, I NEVER reach for a rasp when I'm shaping chair stretchers only use a spokeshave. With the perfect straight grain of a stretcher or spoke, a shave works beautifully!

 

[garry3]

In my opinion, a spokeshave only has limited use in crafting a haft, especially a curved haft.. A really good, large rasp(I use a farriers rasp) is about all that's needed to shape octagons.

Actually, all my hafts start as octagons. Making octagons first, is the only way I have ever found to make a "perfect" oval by hand.

I agree with almost all of this. This is why I order my bigger hafts as octagons even if the finished haft is to be round. I let them remove a bunch of unneeded material for me.

I don't use the farriers rasp all that much for axe handles, but I am not building them from scratch. I won't argue that you can remove a lot of wood in a hurry with one though and I do use them just not for hafts.

A Nicholson no49, a good coarse file, cabinet scraper and sand paper in that order.

 

[garry3]

You'll never get sharp crisp corners on an octagon with a rasp. Only a blade does that.

Get you a cabinet scraper Square Peg. They are just great for the final finish. Some say they don't quite leave as good a surface as a cut one(planes, spoke shaves ect,). There are very few people that could tell the difference. Go with just a cheap rectangle shaped one in the thicker steel if you have a choice, either will do very well. Some like hafted ones but I find that they are more hassle then they are worth for me. I can't imagine making a octagon handle with out a cabinet scraper.

 

[quinton]

I agree with almost all of this. This is why I order my bigger hafts as octagons even if the finished haft is to be round. I let them remove a bunch of unneeded material for me.

I don't use the farriers rasp all that much for axe handles, but I am not building them from scratch. I won't argue that you can remove a lot of wood in a hurry with one though and I do use them just not for hafts.

A Nicholson no49, a good coarse file, cabinet scraper and sand paper in that order.

Garry, I Have found the very length, and width of a farriers rasp helps keep facets true, just by being able to eyeball each stroke down the length of the rasp at a glance.. I have a harder time with angle orientation before the stroke with a shorter rasp on a longer haft... Maybe it's just technique I have developed on my own over time.

 

[garry3]

Garry, I Have found the very length, and width of a farriers rasp helps keep facets true, just by being able to eyeball each stroke down the length of the rasp at a glance.. I have a harder time with angle orientation before the stroke with a shorter rasp on a longer haft... Maybe it's just technique I have developed on my own over time.

What you are describing is kind of like comparing a short plane to a long one. Watching some one work with a tool they know quit well makes me think I need one, then when I pick it up it becomes quit clear that the tool is only part of it.

I like the smaller rasp for reshaping the fawns foot and following contours. I like to use the round side on flat surfaces and the flat side on round surfaces.
My guess is that you have leaned to use the farriers rasp to do the same things.