"Panther Run Spike Tomahawk" For the life of me.......

Square_peg said:
How did indigenous people fell a tree?

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/arch499/nonwest/northwest/fellingtrees.htm
Click to expand...

Very much so,Square_peg,(and thanks for a cool link).However,these NW characters,and their canoes,clan-houses,and totem-poles,were some unique customers....And all the incredible hassle involved in felling these giant trees was,in a big way,appropriate to the occasion,so to speak,as it WAS a big deal,to kill a 6+' dia. Red cedar,or a giant spruce,or anything of the sort...
I doubt that they'd seek some quicker,more expeditious way to do that.
(Also,the Tlingit and their neighbors were unique in that,1,they did forge(as well as peen-hardened the edges of)weapons and tools of the(exact source yet unknown by us)native Cu,and,2,at some point transferred their forging skills straight into (possibly hot)-forging of intricate,multi-fullered,steel blades....

And so,not your average customers,eager for cheap,Slovakian-made tomahawks....:).....(no offense to Slovakian smiths,some of the very best in Europe,the general state of economics not being something they had any control of).

Some indigenous people did have the need for woodworking tools,usually right along the tools themselves,the very modern-looking copper adzes of the Inuit of the Western Alaska come to mind...But many simply did not...
 
The natives around here didn't have a need to chop down big trees. They did harvest bowstaves though. Junipers were notched and the stave likely popped off the trunk or branch later. It seems that the notches were not chopped but chiseled. Useing a hammer stone and in some cases a stone chisel of sorts but I suspect antler would be the best choice. Evidence of the antler tools probably lost to the effects of time.
 
Hi all,

Uggggh. I think MY Heads going to explode!

Received this Email today from the Rhode Island Historical Society : Today, 3:30 PM

Hello Mr. XXXXX

According to our Director of Collections, the ax (Denison Tomahawk) combines friction and wedge. One wedge looks original, while another like an early repair.

Thank you.

The Reference Staff
Rhode Island Historical Society




What say the fine folks of Blade Forums ? Originally "Friction/Self tightening" or "Wedge" ? http://project1763.org/wp-content/themes/project1763/images/revolutionary_peace/02/2-6.jpg

The more I look at the picture of the Denison Tomahawk......the more I suspect the Eye hole too small to enable a handle to slip down into/through the top of hole.


HARDBALL
 
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Hard to say. It does look as though it has the dimensions of a slip-fit handle that was deliberately left as thick as was possible for the small eye size, and slip-fit heads can get away with shallower eyes than wedged ones, to boot. But by the same token...maybe not? I'd want to see the top-down view of the eye. Slip-fit handles tend to have wider eyes than wedge-fit.
 
Hardball, the picture shows that the handle is smaller at the bottom than the top. I would take the directors explanation at face value. Friction fit is an issue at times with me. My fro handle combineds the two methods because it would come loose. That hawk is a weapon, if it was my weapon I would be sure the head would not come loose. I am not surprised at all that it is wedged. Why are you?
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts. Garry3, what I am attempting to do is find an example (aforementioned time period and area) of a Spike Tomahawk that allows for the handle to be "dropped down through/into the top of the Eye hole" and held on by friction. Search as I might, I've yet to find a single example of such a Hawk (other than modern of course). Now, if the Denison Hawk does indeed allow for the friction method and the addition of a wedge is used for greater security, I have no problem/concern with that whatsoever. So garry3, your thinking the handle IS smaller at the bottom than the top eh ? If so, maybe that handle would indeed slip down into that Eye hole and (if so) it would be THE first such Spike Tomahawk (that I'm aware of) that uses this method of Head attachment. I am originally from Rhode Island and I hope to make arrangement with the RISH to one day see this Denison Hawk personally. Thanks for all your help.

Regards,
HARDBALL
 
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Hardball, I simply blew the picture up and measured it with calipers. But that is just measuring the side profile.
 
I know nothing about tomahawks, so this may or not be helpful.

32479790992_8ca23b5093_c.jpg

https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...=onepage&q=18 century Tomahawk handle&f=false


Bob
 
Thanks RJ,

I am/have been aware of Vargo's book. I must say, after reading (the provided pages from the link) it appears that Vargo is pretty much saying what I am now discovering, that is to say, it appears (all/most ?) Historical SPIKE TOMAHAWKS are mounted from "the bottom up" and has a wedge! Well, I'd sure like to know when the OTHER method of mounting "Spike Tomahawk Heads" (i.e. drop down into the Eye hole from the top) came into vogue. I suspect it's much more modern in it's design. Thanks again RJ. I NEED to buy a copy of Vargo's book.

Regards,
HARDBALL
 
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Makes me wonder what kind was used on the Maryrose? A ship wreck off the English coast in the 1500's. Mud bottom preserved tons of material.
 
garry3 said:
Makes me wonder what kind was used on the Maryrose? A ship wreck off the English coast in the 1500's. Mud bottom preserved tons of material.
Click to expand...

A quick search didn't turn up anything from the Mary Rose, but this photo is of some axes and other tools found at Jamestown.

The+Project+Gutenberg+EBook+of+New+Discoveries+at+Jamestown%232.jpg
 
Arrrrr garry3,

As if I'm not going nutz with trying to find an example of a Spike Tomahawk (per my thread) you open the door (sort to speak) with the Maryrose and Shipwrecks! Now I really HOOKED! (Well done).

http://www.maryrose.org/meet-the-crew/the-carpenter/tools/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizilburun_shipwreck


Oooh, check out the ancient SPIKED AXE from this ship wreck (near bottom of page). Hey, does this use a "wedge" ? LOL This just goes to show that this Spike is pretty darn old!

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/cmac/report3.shtml

HARDBALL
 
A purportedly 15th-century Spanish-made trade axe found in Maine. Almost identical to what Rinaldi of Italy currently calls an "American" axe.

1288576334_0bb6.jpg
 
HARDBALL said:
Arrrrr garry3,

As if I'm not going nutz with trying to find an example of a Spike Tomahawk (per my thread) you open the door (sort to speak) with the Maryrose and Shipwrecks! Now I really HOOKED! (Well done).

http://www.maryrose.org/meet-the-crew/the-carpenter/tools/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizilburun_shipwreck


Oooh, check out the ancient SPIKED AXE from this ship wreck (near bottom of page). Hey, does this use a "wedge" ? LOL This just goes to show that this Spike is pretty darn old!

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/cmac/report3.shtml

HARDBALL
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Them ship wrecks are a good source for artifacts. I am sure the Maryrose has some artifacts we could learn from. So much stuff is not available to the public. It's one of the things that stick in my craw with museums and state archaeology departments, packed away to never be seen again. In some state or university basements are no doubt other examples.

So we have still not found a strictly friction fit spike hawk. The eye shape sure looks more like a modern axe than anything else. Is the friction fit the more modern design?
 
Hi garry3,

garry3 Quote : "So we have still not found a strictly friction fit spike hawk. The eye shape sure looks more like a modern axe than anything else. Is the friction fit the more modern design?"

EXACTLY garry3. I'm thinking the same thing, that is to say, I see plenty of beautiful NEW Spike Tomahawks (using the drop the handle down into the Eye hole) design. All these makers say their design is (based/modeled/copied/etc.)
after HISTORICAL design. Perhaps better said, they should use the word "LOOSELY designed" as I have yet to see ONE example of a Historical (Trade) Spike Tomahawk (circa 17th. to 18th. century) here in America (especially New England/Maine/Canada) using that design. I am now searching Historical Shipwrecks, Naval Boarding Axes, etc. That photograph of the ROMAN (Shipwreck artifact) Spike Tomahawk is too cool! Nearly identical to Native Spike Tomahawks! I guess if (the design) isn't broke, don't fix it!

Regards,
HARDBALL
SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, must of made such a designed Spike Tomahawk. But WHO, WHEN, WHERE ? I search the web HOURS per day/night trying to find an example/photograph.
 
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