Pantograph for 2D milling

[Lorien]

Anyone out there have one of these machines?
I'd love to see what you use, and find out what you think about it.

 

[Richard338]

 

[Lorien]

I was gonna drop Salem a line!

 

[Hengelo_77]

I have one. You can fix the stylus and use it as a light milling machine.
I use mine for slipjoints, relieving liners, nail pulls/nicks etc.
I also made a few tools with it.
I've never worked with a dedicated milling machine, so I can't compare but I like my machine. Deckel G1L. They do need space

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Allen Elishewitz might be the best in the industry when it comes to that (and just knives in general). Check his process, he is on FB I know that.

 

[12345678910]

There's more videos if you search on "Deckel G1L"

Will Stelter

Stefan Gotteswinter

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Gorton and Deckel pantograph mills are very useful and versatile machines.
They are big and heavy, so they do require some space.

 

[Lorien]

these machines don't seem easy to come by, around here at least. They seem like a more 'organic' kind of mill than the mini mills/mill drills I've been looking at.

Not so great for drilling, reaming and tapping though. I'm feeling like I need a mill AND a pantograph, but that's a lot of space. And maybe 'need' is the wrong word, lol.

It probably makes more sense for me to invest in a standard mill, since that tool is a likely a lot better for making folders and the other precision hungry objects I want to make . But the limits of that tool are circles and arcs, whereas the pantograph doesn't really seem to have any limits with regards to the paths it can cut.

Do any of you use this machine for cutting annealed steel at all?

 

[12345678910]

these machines don't seem easy to come by, around here at least. They seem like a more 'organic' kind of mill than the mini mills/mill drills I've been looking at.

Not so great for drilling, reaming and tapping though. I'm feeling like I need a mill AND a pantograph, but that's a lot of space. And maybe 'need' is the wrong word, lol.

It probably makes more sense for me to invest in a standard mill, since that tool is a likely a lot better for making folders and the other precision hungry objects I want to make . But the limits of that tool are circles and arcs, whereas the pantograph doesn't really seem to have any limits with regards to the paths it can cut.

Do any of you use this machine for cutting annealed steel at all?

BTW, these machines even have the optional attachment called a "milling head" which clamps around one of the spindle rings and holds it firmly into a fixed position . The other side of the milling head attaches to the rail on top of the machine's deep U neck. That allows you to use the machine for light milling word on mild steel, but I've used it successfully to mill hardened steel using carbide cutters.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Milling pantographs were routinely used to engrave steel.

 

[Lorien]

the kind of thing that I'd like to use the machine for would be cutting a blank out of sheet of steel, cutting the lightening holes from the tangs. Maybe cutting guards/bolsters and slotting them, cutting out folding knife handles from titanium, etc. Milling weight reduction pockets into various handle materials...shit, man- the more I think about what I'd want to use this thing for, the more things I'd do with it come to mind...

 

[Hengelo_77]

There are pantographs and pantographs.
I have a Deckel G1L. It is relatively small but goes up to 1:50. Its big brother is a GK21, used for heavier stock removal but only goes up to 1:10.
Two things that helped me where a manual and a machine shop specialised in restoring Deckel machines. They restored the bearing spindle and sold me a new collet chuck. That cost me about half of what I payed for the machine.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

I have a Gorton 3U and this is how I use it. She will do 1:14

 

[BentRivers]

I ended up building my own pantograph to do shield inlays, works pretty well, even cuts stainless steel. If you can believe it I have not broken a single 1/32 endmill yet. Uses a foredom handpiece as the spindle. I came up with my own stylus collet system as well, the stylus adjusts up and down and supports the pantograph arm to keep it from sagging into the cut.

 

[Lorien]

I ended up building my own pantograph to do shield inlays, works pretty well, even cuts stainless steel. If you can believe it I have not broken a single 1/32 endmill yet. Uses a foredom handpiece as the spindle. I came with my own stylus collet system as well, the stylus adjusts up and down and supports the pantograph arm to keep it from sagging into the cut.

that is incredible!!! You made that entire thing? (extrusions excluded)
I'm curious about the pivots- it looks like you pressed bearings in, obviously there's more to it.
I'd love to know what things of note went through your mind when you were building this; challenges, eureka moments etc

 

[BentRivers]

that is incredible!!! You made that entire thing? (extrusions excluded)
I'm curious about the pivots- it looks like you pressed bearings in, obviously there's more to it.
I'd love to know what things of note went through your mind when you were building this; challenges, eureka moments etc

Thanks! I just built the armature and the stylus and the green support column. Like you said I purchased the extrusions, the compound table, and the linear ballscrew assembly (z-axis).

Pivots are pretty simple, just holes drilled in aluminum with drill rod for the pins, anti-seizing lube on those to keep from galling. I made sure to reduce friction and keep the aluminum armatures from rubbing with delrin washers between all pivots.

Honestly, was just trying to see if I could, ya know? Ive been wanting a capable pantograph for some time but I just didn't have the means or the space to add another big machine to the shop.

As for a eureka moment, the original design I was going with used a threaded screw to adjust the depth of the stylus as you increased the depth of cut and that wasn't working, the armature was fairly stiff on its own but not enough for cutting metal with endmills, not to mention rotating the stylus thread to adjust the depth would throw off the accuracy because threads aren't concentric or precise, duh! So i took some inspiration from the larger, professional pantographs and designed my own slip collet style stylus. This not only solved my accuracy and concentricity problem but that stylus also acts as a support for the armature to keep it ridged and from "biting" down into the cut which was exploding my delicate endmills in previous versions.

I'm currently working on some plans and a video for those who might be interested in building their own or just curious to see it actually work, haha

 

[DanF]

^ Most excellent!

 

[Lorien]

Thanks! I just built the armature and the stylus and the green support column. Like you said I purchased the extrusions, the compound table, and the linear ballscrew assembly (z-axis).

Pivots are pretty simple, just holes drilled in aluminum with drill rod for the pins, anti-seizing lube on those to keep from galling. I made sure to reduce friction and keep the aluminum armatures from rubbing with delrin washers between all pivots.

Honestly, was just trying to see if I could, ya know? Ive been wanting a capable pantograph for some time but I just didn't have the means or the space to add another big machine to the shop.

As for a eureka moment, the original design I was going with used a threaded screw to adjust the depth of the stylus as you increased the depth of cut and that wasn't working, the armature was fairly stiff on its own but not enough for cutting metal with endmills, not to mention rotating the stylus thread to adjust the depth would throw off the accuracy because threads aren't concentric or precise, duh! So i took some inspiration from the larger, professional pantographs and designed my own slip collet style stylus. This not only solved my accuracy and concentricity problem but that stylus also acts as a support for the armature to keep it ridged and from "biting" down into the cut which was exploding my delicate endmills in previous versions.

I'm currently working on some plans and a video for those who might be interested in building their own or just curious to see it actually work, haha

well, no pressure, but I'd love to watch your machine in action

 

[ashwinearl]

Thanks! I just built the armature and the stylus and the green support column. Like you said I purchased the extrusions, the compound table, and the linear ballscrew assembly (z-axis).

Pivots are pretty simple, just holes drilled in aluminum with drill rod for the pins, anti-seizing lube on those to keep from galling. I made sure to reduce friction and keep the aluminum armatures from rubbing with delrin washers between all pivots.

Honestly, was just trying to see if I could, ya know? Ive been wanting a capable pantograph for some time but I just didn't have the means or the space to add another big machine to the shop.

As for a eureka moment, the original design I was going with used a threaded screw to adjust the depth of the stylus as you increased the depth of cut and that wasn't working, the armature was fairly stiff on its own but not enough for cutting metal with endmills, not to mention rotating the stylus thread to adjust the depth would throw off the accuracy because threads aren't concentric or precise, duh! So i took some inspiration from the larger, professional pantographs and designed my own slip collet style stylus. This not only solved my accuracy and concentricity problem but that stylus also acts as a support for the armature to keep it ridged and from "biting" down into the cut which was exploding my delicate endmills in previous versions.

I'm currently working on some plans and a video for those who might be interested in building their own or just curious to see it actually work, haha

I would love to see those plans, if you ever want to make another for selling let me know too. As a slipjoint maker a pantograph is ideal for shield inlay. But as others have said most traditional pantograph engravers are large/solid machines. A basement shop has limited me on getting a surface grinder and pantograph mill.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

A New Hermes engraving pantograph with motor will easily do shield inlays. You can lay out your shield with a diamond drag tip, saw it out with a jeweler's saw, and rout the handle with the motorized head.
These machines are available for as little as $150 on Ebay.