Paper Grinding Wheel or Belt Sander

R

Racerx2oo3

Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
174
I've been seeing posts lately about how the paper wheels for a bench grinder are really the cats meow for super sharpening.

Has anyone compared the results to those acheived with a 1" belt sander/grinder using sharpening belts and a leather belt?

I've been toying with the idea of picking up a belt sander and some quality belts for sharpening, but now I'm wondering about the the Razor Sharp paper wheels.

Sean
 
never belt sand it can burn the finish and protective properties out of the steel
 
fdd19 said:
never belt sand it can burn the finish and protective properties out of the steel
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Yes, you may regrind blade and polish it, but edge itself very thin and heat easy so you may overheat it - blade is thicker and can absorb more heat from the friction. I guess same may happen to paper wheels or wooden wheels.

It depend on RPM - professional sharpening tools moves slow.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
fdd19 said:
never belt sand it can burn the finish and protective properties out of the steel
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused here, my understanding that the general consensus is that slack belt grinding is the best way to sharpen a convex grind. Obviously heat can be an issue with any sharpening method that involves friction, and especially so when mechanical means are used. But isn't the blade generally quenched in water or cooling agent after each pass to prevent heat buildup?

Obviously it's a good skill to know how to sharpen freehand with benchstones, but everything I've heard says that a belt grinder can sharpen and hone a knife to a razors edge in a fraction of the time required with hand methods. (Providing care is taken as stated above.)

Sean
 
i have used the paper wheels since the early 90's and wouldnt trade them for anything. i used to have an ez sharp which was similar to a lansky sharpener. i gave it to my cousin once i learned how to use the wheels which was only a week. one good thing about these wheels, you can set up at a knife show and sharpen knives rather quickly while still doing a good job while raking in the money. i have never raised my price to sharpen knives depending on size since using these wheels. i start out at $1. a blade for folders up to $3.- $5. for a medium to large fixed blade. its easy money which to me is a no brainer.
 
Racerx2oo3 said:
I'm a bit confused here, my understanding that the general consensus is that slack belt grinding is the best way to sharpen a convex grind. Obviously heat can be an issue with any sharpening method that involves friction, and especially so when mechanical means are used. But isn't the blade generally quenched in water or cooling agent after each pass to prevent heat buildup?

Obviously it's a good skill to know how to sharpen freehand with benchstones, but everything I've heard says that a belt grinder can sharpen and hone a knife to a razors edge in a fraction of the time required with hand methods. (Providing care is taken as stated above.)

Sean
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just buy a lansky sharpmkaer or something similiar so you dont inadvertantly ruin your knife and it doesnt take long with those
 
fdd19 said:
just buy a lansky sharpmkaer or something similiar so you dont inadvertantly ruin your knife and it doesnt take long with those
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Ok, now neither of your posts make any sense. Have you used either a belt grinder or a paper abrasive wheel?

Sean
 
and burn away the temper from your blade, which will make the edge brittle and possibly chip or crack. Sharpening your knife in this manner will void the warranty.
 
I have both, a 1"x30" belt grinder and a Baldor with paper wheels. Each has its place and as Bill D. says, "Properly used..." will result in a great edge. I use the paper wheels to polish the edge after sharpening and the belt grinder to do knives that are recurves or have a convex edge.
 
when i sharpen a knife that i have made, i sometimes have to use my belt sander to work up a burr because of how hard the edge is. i watch what i'm doing, take my time and use water to keep my blade cool. after working up a burr, i remove it with the cardboard wheel. a belt sander does have a place in sharpening like bill and whitleystu said, but only if you know what you are doing.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Read the first word in my post again.....
Bill
www.billdeshivs.com
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The question is how hard it is to "use properly". And I think it is almost impossible. With free hanging belt pressure on the blade is not too big, but even with this it heat very fast - I can tell you because I am grinding holding it with my unprotected fingers. Cooling it with water helps with grinding, but again blade has some mass to stand heat, but edge and tip - even more can not absorb heat same as blade an heat up extremely fast in a fraction of a second you may burn out tip, same happen on very edge.

For the reason that edge can not stand the heat same as blade body, when you send it to HT, they always ask left edge thick about 1mm so it will have proper HT.

This is why after grinding and polishing on the belt I take bench-stones and sharpens it with hand to remove edge which potentially loose HT.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
whether using the wheels or belts on the Bader , I have never had the edge get more than slightly warm to the touch. Just dont try to do too much at once. You try to rush it or remove too much too fast and you can overheat it and suck the temper out of it.

Sharpened one the other night , edge was right at .024 before sharpening , sharpened to hair popping in under 2 minutes total using the wheels. Steel was Paul Bos HT'd D2.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
whether using the wheels or belts on the Bader , I have never had the edge get more than slightly warm to the touch. Just dont try to do too much at once. You try to rush it or remove too much too fast and you can overheat it and suck the temper out of it.

Sharpened one the other night , edge was right at .024 before sharpening , sharpened to hair popping in under 2 minutes total using the wheels. Steel was Paul Bos HT'd D2.
Click to expand...

Well so far you are talking about getting it sharp - no doubt it is possible. I am not sure how you measure temperature on very edge, I can imagine that blade did not get hot because it has more steel in it. but I saw tip burned out pretty fast under belt if you are not exteremely careful (with blade being only slightly warm), because tip is very thin and can not stand heat. Similar happen on the very edge.

The question is how long edge sharpened like this will stay sharp? I guess that sharpening system like Tormek has very low RPM and having wheel in the water all the time for same reason - not to ruin HT on the edge.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I own a Tormek, I own a belt sander (Iused to own two and I think I need 3) and a supply of belts. I have owned and used paper wheels (I no longer do since a paper wheel exploded).

All will get sharp, the Tormek requires a final hand honing step after sharpening and is a LOT more expensive.

Belt sanders and a supply of belts (don't forget a leather one and a supply of chromium oxide for finally honing) can deliver absolutely insane edges without harming the temper/hardness if they are properly used. There is a learning cure, practice on 2nd hand knives from good will or 2nd Hand stores (a few bucks each) until you know what you are doing.

A belt sander is more versatile than a set of paper wheels. You can use the belt sander for a lot more than just sharpening.
 
QuietOned said:
...if they are properly used...
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I can have same insane or whatever edge with diamond benchstones and loaded leather without constant supplay of belts and without risk to serioucely damge knife or overheat it - again without risk. And with D8XX - even faster then with belt sander.

I agree that you can do a lot of thing with belt sander - this is what it is for - for sanding, grinding etc., but it is not for sharpening IMHO.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I can have same insane or whatever edge with diamond benchstones and loaded leather without constant supplay of belts and without risk to serioucely damge knife or overheat it - again without risk. And with D8XX - even faster then with belt sander.

I agree that you can do a lot of thing with belt sander - this is what it is for - for sanding, grinding etc., but it is not for sharpening IMHO.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Vassili,

You seem adament that a belt sander will harm a blade even when presented with the evidence of many knifemakers and others who are obtaining the desired result from using this type of equipment. There is no doubt that you can obtain a satisfactory edge using bench stones. However if you are like me and trying to sharpen a 16"+ Khukri with a convex grind, you quickly see where you run into some pretty serious limitations.

The fact that you believe a belt grinder will destroy a blade does not make it the truth, however you continue to present this as a certain fact. I have no problem with you stating your opinion that you do not feel a belt sander is a useful sharpening tool, but to present the idea that a belt sander will damage the blade edge, (stated as a fact and not a possibility), you are really just spreading false information around the forum and perpetuating a myth.

Sean
 
Racerx2oo3 said:
Vassili,

You seem adament that a belt sander will harm a blade even when presented with the evidence of many knifemakers and others who are obtaining the desired result from using this type of equipment. There is no doubt that you can obtain a satisfactory edge using bench stones. However if you are like me and trying to sharpen a 16"+ Khukri with a convex grind, you quickly see where you run into some pretty serious limitations.

The fact that you believe a belt grinder will destroy a blade does not make it the truth, however you continue to present this as a certain fact. I have no problem with you stating your opinion that you do not feel a belt sander is a useful sharpening tool, but to present the idea that a belt sander will damage the blade edge, (stated as a fact and not a possibility), you are really just spreading false information around the forum and perpetuating a myth.

Sean
Click to expand...

Well, I did not call names and provide arguments to my position. You are instead start accusing me in "spreading false information around the forum and perpetuating a myth". You argument is again just restatement and you have nothing else to say.

What can I say - Congratulation! This is only mean that you from intellectual discussion turning it to something else I do not want to be part of. If this is too personal to you that you allow yourself to go this path, I am pass.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
ask how many knifemake'rs sharpen with their belt grinders ( and I will too once I situate mine to a better position ) . Use whatever YOU can use effectively to get the edge you want , a belt takes more attention than a stone , but it also takes a lot less time...

I find the cardboard wheels give me the speed of the belt in a more controllable motion , I would use the 8" wheel on my Bader but it is serrated and I don't care for the final edge when using it )

and NOZ : The edge will last just as long as any edge you put on with a stone or anything else. The means by which you get it sharp has no bearing on how long the edge will last.
 
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