paper is merciless....ok another gun thread

B

brantoken

Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
303
Ok guys, I hate to admit it, but I'm having a heck of a time with shooting standard bulleyes with my air rifle. I've got it rigged with a 8-32x bushnell elite. What is killing me is that I can shoot smaller groups even shooting at a old bullet hole than I can trying to shoot a standard black round target.
I have had the problem for year and I can't figuare out what I'm doing.

I'm shoot a standard 10 m nra air rifle target at 25 meters. At 32 X I shoot a huge 1.5 inch group and when I aim at the nra symbol ( sorry munk , I know that could be sacrilige to some, but heah , it was there) , I consistantly shoot a .5 inch group.

Not get this , when I back the scope off to 8x the group drops to 1 inch.

In the past I would shoot anything but bulleyes, to practice just to get over the frustration. Anybody got any clues? It's time I whipped this one.....
 
Get a better scope. The point of aim is probably different when you go to a higher magnification. I don't understand how optics work exactly, but I do know that inexpensive variable power scopes don't work exactly right at all powers. Or something like that. If this makes no sense I'm sorry, it's been a long night.
 
I have more trouble hitting targets that have less edge definition---in other words I also can often hit a black spot I hand draw in the middle of white paper, but have trouble with a orange circle in the middle of blackness.
 
Brann, could be the scope- could be your eyes... Is your eye exam stuff up-to-date? Nothing makes you focus like shooting... I can tell when I need to get a checkup. Age matters too. My BS insurance only does frames every 2 years... :(


Ad Astra
 
Does your scope have parallax adjustment, called Adjustable Objective? This is absolutely essential when shooting at ranges less than 100 yards. Don't ask me to explain parallax, I just know that the standard on non A/O scopes is 100 yards. At ranges less than 100, unless you have an A/O scope, when you move your eye in relation to the scope the aiming point moves. Gee, this sounds clear as mud. See here.
http://www.straightshooters.com/genmenus/mmscopes.html

Unfortunatly, you have to spend at least as much on your scope as you rifle. Also, if you have a powerful springer type air rifle, the 2-direction recoil will eat scopes that can handle the heavy recoil of a centerfire rifle.

Steve

Edit: I just checked the Bushnell website, and the Elite 4200 8x32 does have an AO and should be rated for airgun recoil. So I have no idea. :confused: Feel free to ignore this post. :rolleyes: Steve
 
brantoken said:
I'm shoot a standard 10 m nra air rifle target at 25 meters. At 32 X I shoot a huge 1.5 inch group and when I aim at the nra symbol ( sorry munk , I know that could be sacrilige to some, but heah , it was there) , I consistantly shoot a .5 inch group.
Click to expand...

It could be lots of things, when I go to higher mags, like over 16X, I tend to over control the trigger.

The Roadrunner could be exactly right. I have a Bushnell on a rifle or two, while certainly useable they aren't a Leupold.

I had a Springfield Scope on my Remmy LTR that drove me nuts, when I'd up the magnification it would slightly change the eye relief, which would mean I'd have to break weld.

It could be evil spirits...
 
I got the higher end scope the elite 4200 ( heck paid about the same for it as my gun)and yes it does have adjustable objective which is adjusted correctly, I also understand parrallax, heck it could be I don't know . The scope was recommended by several "expert" and they seem like honest guys.

Gee 45-70 , if it's evil spirts, think it best to use a pagan ritual , or go with a certified exorcist, I'll try either heck I don't care what it takes I'm tired of it.

The gun is a PCP so recoil or scope destruction is not the issue , I've already did that loop on another gun.

Naw, I have had the same problem with different rifle and scopes, could be the martinni's have finally hit the critical collateral damage level, not much to do about it, I would just like to know what it was....

It just drives me nuts.......i can't figuare it out.
 
Sounds like trouble holding the same spot in the large target, or not having enough contrast between the target and the crosswires. When you back off to 8x, you have alot more white around the bullseye and can see the scope alignment better to get the smaller group. Things that may help would be a 6 o'clock hold, or illuminated recticle, or different lighting on target. Or put a white dot on the target to cover the 10 or x-ring, gives a smaller aiming point in the black.
 
Personally, it sounds like a difference between intuitive and analytical shooting. A bullseye forces your attention to one spot. Whereas, when shooting intuitively, you absorb the entire scene.

For some folks, they shoot better when they're seeing the whole picture, rather than just a void (black circle).

Others only want the void...everything is a distraction.


In your situation - you do better when you have an actual target (vs. a void). It's not as uncommon as you think and can be found across all target shooting, whether guns or arrows, etc.



YMMW, FWIW
 
If you are shooting better at NRA symbols then I'd keep shooting them. There are some pink paper dots you can get to put over the black bullsyes.Try some of those.

If you can hit these brighter targets I'd say the problem is not with the scope. You should be keeping the same mag for all shooting- I mean, you shouldn't be screwing around uping and lowering the mag trying to compensate for this.

How old are you?

It sounds a lot like when I try target shooting with peeps. I always over correct, study the thing too long and my shots go all over hell. The funny thing is, well, not so funny, pretty predictable, really, is when I try a fast shot- what the peeps are famous for doing well- I shoot right on. It's when I allow my eye too much time to fuss and figit that things go wrong.

try the pink dots or just NRA symbols.



munk
 
I'll try a few and see what happens, thanks for the input.....
the rifle is a .177 arm arms S410E.
 
I´d say it might be the contrast too. higher magnification means less contast and smaller visible part of the target. If you hit better on other targets it might also be some form of "target panic" or overcontrolling the trigger - but then I do not know much about shooting guns as you guys do...

btw - found a fitting among my favourite smilies... :rolleyes:

fsniper.gif


Andreas
 
I don't know all that much about guns but I'm betting the bullseye is way too big.
Some people just can't hit the broad side of a barn but they can hit a tiny knothole in the middle of the middle board.:D ;)
So I'd say Munk is right about the pink dots. Put one in the center of the bull and then try it. I'll bet you do a whole lot better!
 
Doesn't look like you're going to remain a Glorious beacon for long, Yvsa.


munk
 
What is your perspective on the bullseye? Are you trying to cut it into quarters with the crosshairs or aiming for dead center? Changing how you view the target may change your accuracy. Try focusing on the center of the center of the center. Perhaps your mind is settling for just hitting the black spot.

This is all barring any equipment problems.
 
No one can hold completely motionless due to small factors like breathing, pulse rate, caffeine, etc. and when the magnification is increased from 8x to 32x any motion of the reticle is much more apparent. This alone can have an adverse effect on accuracy.
 
Get an airgun scope.

Airguns can ruin a good scope that would handle 30-06 recoil indefinitely. They apparently have a forward recoil pulse, which regular scopes are not stressed for.
 
Rusty said:
Get an airgun scope.

Airguns can ruin a good scope that would handle 30-06 recoil indefinitely. They apparently have a forward recoil pulse, which regular scopes are not stressed for.
Click to expand...


Rusty has an uncanny knack for posting exactly what I was going to say before I say it! He is absolutely correct. There is nothing wrong with the Bushnell, but you are using way too much scope for an airgun. Even a cheapie dedicated airgun scope by Simmons or whoever will do better than a more expensive scope designed for center-fire rifles over time. I have heard of guys breaking great quality scopes on an airgun even though the rearward recoil is far less.

BTW, if that 8X-32X varmint scope WAS meant for air rifles, you still have it cranked up way too high.

Personally, I stay away from variables for the most part, as I have seen too many break or fog up. I have one 3X-9X Leupold that I had bought for a rifle project that didn't work out, and went with a Trijicon ACOG 4X32 instead.

The other scopes I use are an old classic Weaver K-4 fixed, a Leupold 4X matte fixed and a Leupold 6X fixed.

I went back to iron sights on my airgun when groups ran almost as tight as with the airgun scope (1.5X) without the hassle.

Regards,

Norm
 
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