Patina time

[Uncle Timbo]

Hey y'all, would a knife done in 3V with a stonewash finish take a forced Patina?
Thanks ahead of time.

 

[kniferbro]

Of course!

 

[Hickory n steel]

Hey y'all, would a knife done in 3V with a stonewash finish take a forced Patina?
Thanks ahead of time.

I'm sure it would, but I wouldn't really do an outright forced patina. What I would do is an intentional patina.
What I mean by this is to intentionally use it to cut things that you know will give you a patina. Cut some steak, cut some chicken ( the hotter the better with meats ), slice some potatoes, and some fruit. If you cut a bunch of different patina giving foods throughout a week, it will look much better than if you just stick it in an apple or something.
If your idea is to put a pattern on your blade though that's a different story and it may not look better depending on the exact look your after.
I still think it looks better than a patterned forced patina though, because chicken gives a nice firey blue patina while steak gives you a darker firey brownish patina and the combination of the different patinas is nice.

 

[Uncle Timbo]

Thank you my brother. Then allow me to back up a tad. I'm having a Kephart made for me, and I NEVER have anything made. Ever! I was afraid it would show up looking like a mirror, which I hate. Remember, we're talking 3V here. I was given the option of a stone wash finish. That's what led me here.
Now what are your thoughts.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Thank you my brother. Then allow me to back up a tad. I'm having a Kephart made for me, and I NEVER have anything made. Ever! I was afraid it would show up looking like a mirror, which I hate. Remember, we're talking 3V here. I was given the option of a stone wash finish. That's what led me here.
Now what are your thoughts.

Since it's not going to be mirror polished then I think you should just use and maintain it normally, it'll develop a nice patina in due time if you cut natural materials.
I'd probably want to patina up a polished blade right away, but a stonewashed blade don't look too bad in the meantime.

 

[joejeweler]

I'm sure it would, but I wouldn't really do an outright forced patina. What I would do is an intentional patina.
What I mean by this is to intentionally use it to cut things that you know will give you a patina. Cut some steak, cut some chicken ( the hotter the better with meats ), slice some potatoes, and some fruit. If you cut a bunch of different patina giving foods throughout a week, it will look much better than if you just stick it in an apple or something.
If your idea is to put a pattern on your blade though that's a different story and it may not look better depending on the exact look your after.
I still think it looks better than a patterned forced patina though, because chicken gives a nice firey blue patina while steak gives you a darker firey brownish patina and the combination of the different patinas is nice.

Yes,...agree here that a mixture of the right kinds of foods will get the patina much nicer and more natural looking. At Whole Foods there are more cold foods than hot ones at the 4 food bars, and even the hot foods are pretty cool once you get though checkout. BUT there is a microwave available so I might save the meat for last and nuke it to speed up the patina.

However, I must say even the luke warm lime topped chicken thighs they've had out now for a few different days have been really good for me in getting a good start on color. I also always put a few chunks of pineapple in my container, and use "Baba Ganoush" (an eggplant, garlic, lemon juice, tahini, and a few other ingredients white paste that is much like hummus but more flavorful to my taste)...on my spinach and other salad greens instead of a salad dressing.

The first thing I do when I start my lunch is use my knife to cut up the lime chicken thighs into smaller pieces, and must look strange at times because I wipe as much an even coating of the lime sauce ALL over the blade I want to get a patina on. (currently doing this on my modded Gayle Bradley Mini 3").

Some days I add a teaspoon amount of barbecued bulled pork or beef to add a little different color to the patina. ($8.99/lb for some of these JUST to get a better patina!)

Then I lay the knife down on a napkin pretty slicked over with a mixture of goodies on it, and place another napkin over it to lessen chance of alarming anyone and read a few pages of a book while my knife is "cooking".

After 15 minutes or so I cut my salad greens with the Baba Ganoush on it used for nice flavor,...and make sure the blade is again well covered. More pages read and then for desert I cut up the pineapple chunks, grilled peppers & onions sometimes, smear the blade again with the juice,... place under napkin again and read some more book pages.

After about 45 minutes I'm mostly done and wipe "most" of the mess off the blade, but leave an oil-thin remnant until I get home in 15-20 minutes, and then
rinse the blade off carefully. I always have a little left overs for a snack,....and at night I give the blade another spa "treatment". HA!

YMMV

 

[Hickory n steel]

Yes,...agree here that a mixture of the right kinds of foods will get the patina much nicer and more natural looking. At Whole Foods there are more cold foods than hot ones at the 4 food bars, and even the hot foods are pretty cool once you get though checkout. BUT there is a microwave available so I might save the meat for last and nuke it to speed up the patina.

However, I must say even the luke warm lime topped chicken thighs they've had out now for a few different days have been really good for me in getting a good start on color. I also always put a few chunks of pineapple in my container, and use "Baba Ganoush" (an eggplant, garlic, lemon juice, tahini, and a few other ingredients white paste that is much like hummus but more flavorful to my taste)...on my spinach and other salad greens instead of a salad dressing.

The first thing I do when I start my lunch is use my knife to cut up the lime chicken thighs into smaller pieces, and must look strange at times because I wipe as much an even coating of the lime sauce ALL over the blade I want to get a patina on. (currently doing this on my modded Gayle Bradley Mini 3").

Some days I add a teaspoon amount of barbecued bulled pork or beef to add a little different color to the patina. ($8.99/lb for some of these JUST to get a better patina!)

Then I lay the knife down on a napkin pretty slicked over with a mixture of goodies on it, and place another napkin over it to lessen chance of alarming anyone and read a few pages of a book while my knife is "cooking".

After 15 minutes or so I cut my salad greens with the Baba Ganoush on it used for nice flavor,...and make sure the blade is again well covered. More pages read and then for desert I cut up the pineapple chunks, grilled peppers & onions sometimes, smear the blade again with the juice,... place under napkin again and read some more book pages.

After about 45 minutes I'm mostly done and wipe "most" of the mess off the blade, but leave an oil-thin remnant until I get home in 15-20 minutes, and then
rinse the blade off carefully. I always have a little left overs for a snack,....and at night I give the blade another spa "treatment". HA!

YMMV

You might want to try postimage, Because Photobucket screwed the pooch.

 

[joejeweler]

You might want to try postimage, Because Photobucket screwed the pooch.

Yes,... Photo Bucket can burn in hell! Hundreds of posts with lots of photos are dead now because of their stupidity and greed,...hope they go down the tubes soon. (on some posts I spent hours getting lots of clear HD photos up too on various sites!)

I just started using Imgur for hosting my photos, but cannot get into my "signature" here to change the photo or even delete the email address showing as I rarely use that one anymore. Back when I signed up, I had access to signature changes, but seems now you have to pay to access it. :-(

Mods,....if you read this you can remove the dead photo and joejeweler email links below to keep my posts less cluttered. Just seems to me that signature access should have always remained available to anyone,....but hey it's not my site.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Yes,... Photo Bucket can burn in hell! Hundreds of posts with lots of photos are dead now because of their stupidity and greed,...hope they go down the tubes soon.

I just started using Imgur for hosting my photos, but cannot get into my "signature" here to change the photo or even delete the email address showing as I rarely use that one anymore. Back when I signed up, I had access to signature changes, but seems now you have to pay to access it. :-(

Mods,....if you read this you can remove the dead photo and joejeweler email links below to keep my posts less cluttered. Just seems to me that signature access should have always remained available to anyone,....but hey it's not my site.

Oh, I thought you were try to post a picture

 

[Uncle Timbo]

Since it's not going to be mirror polished then I think you should just use and maintain it normally, it'll develop a nice patina in due time if you cut natural materials.
I'd probably want to patina up a polished blade right away, but a stonewashed blade don't look too bad in the meantime.

I don't know what It's going to look like if It's not stone washed.
I might be able to signal an ocean liner with it!
You guys have given me a lot of "FOOD" for thought.
I've always done a vinegar patina because it's quick. But I think It's time to slow things down.
Have you all ever heard of stirring your coffee with your blade every time you have coffee? I guy here somewhere has a French Press and says he gets an even gray blade.
Joe, you make it sound easy and tasty. I might have to take a page out of your playbook. You've got it figured out.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I don't know what It's going to look like if It's not stone washed.
I might be able to signal an ocean liner with it!
You guys have given me a lot of "FOOD" for thought.
I've always done a vinegar patina because it's quick. But I think It's time to slow things down.
Have you all ever heard of stirring your coffee with your blade every time you have coffee? I guy here somewhere has a French Press and says he gets an even gray blade.
Joe, you make it sound easy and tasty. I might have to take a page out of your playbook. You've got it figured out.

I don't drink coffee, but I have heard of this.

Here's an example or two of what hot chicken gets you

 

[chiral.grolim]

Re: a patina on 3V, it's not so easy given the chromium content. I'll run an experiment for you on my old GSO-10 in 3V with the industry standard HT and stonewash, but here are pics from a vinegar bath of my low-temper 3V w/ peened-finish GSO-5.1:

Can you see the line of division? That's where the surface of the vinegar was contacting the blade, everything toward the edge from that line was completely submerged. Here is what 1095CV on a stripped BK16 looked like after sharing that bath, again looking at the line and what is below it and granting that the Becker already had a slight patina present:

Speaking of the topic, didn't you already try this back in 2014? I seem to recall you asking about putting a patina on a stonewashed 3V blade back then too...

 

[craytab]

I'm sure it would

Have you owned 3v? Have you tried to put a patina on it? Those are Rhetorical questions.

Chiral is right. 3v does not patina, nor rust, easily.

Uncle Timbo , what is your reasoning for wanting a patina? If it is for added rust resistance I would say it is not needed at all. Just a bit of maintenance (not very much at all really). This is not like other carbon steels. It is semi-stainless. If it is just to look good....you have your work cut out for you. I wouldn't waist my time.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Oh, I forgot to add, the results (or lack) on the 3V blade in the 3rd and 4th pics are after 4 hrs soaking in white vinegar. The pic of the BK16 is after only 10 minutes.

Here's the link to my test: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/alone.1398033/page-4#post-16872226

 

[Hickory n steel]

Have you owned 3v? Have you tried to put a patina on it? Those are Rhetorical questions.

Chiral is right. 3v does not patina, nor rust, easily.

Uncle Timbo , what is your reasoning for wanting a patina? If it is for added rust resistance I would say it is not needed at all. Just a bit of maintenance (not very much at all really). This is not like other carbon steels. It is semi-stainless. If it is just to look good....you have your work cut out for you. I wouldn't waist my time.

Due to the fact that the op was wanting to patina it, I was under the assumption that it was a standard carbon steel.
And was just basing my posts off of that.

 

[kniferbro]

Will 3v really not take a patina? I figured you could force one on basically any steel given the right stuff to force it. Not trying to argue, just learn. I've forced a patina on D2 which is also a semi stainless...?

 

[craytab]

Due to the fact that the op was wanting to patina it, I was under the assumption that it was a standard carbon steel.
And was just basing my posts off of that.

So you haven't owned 3v? And you haven't tried to put a patina on it?

Well, you know the old saying about assuming. It is best that if you have no experience with something to not spread misinformation.

Will 3v really not take a patina? I figured you could force one on basically any steel given the right stuff to force it. Not trying to argue, just learn. I've forced a patina on D2 which is also a semi stainless...?

I'm no expert but something about the make up causes 3v to not surface rust like other steels (patina). I'm going from my own experience here. Perhaps chiral.grolim can explain the technical reasons. I don't have very much experience with d2 but have had quite a bit of experience with 3v. Compared to standard carbon steels (1095, a2, O1) 3v does not rust or patina at near the same rate. Not even close. A2 will rust just sitting in my house in the humid summer, nothing from 3v after years. 1095 used in the kitchen? Develops a Patina right away. Nothing from 3v even after not cleaning the knives until after the meal.

But in a sense you are correct. Anything can rust given the right "stuff" to force it.

 

[Hickory n steel]

So you haven't owned 3v? And you haven't tried to put a patina on it?

Well, you know the old saying about assuming. It is best that if you have no experience with something to not spread misinformation.



I'm no expert but something about the make up causes 3v to not surface rust like other steels (patina). I'm going from my own experience here. Perhaps chiral.grolim can explain the technical reasons. I don't have very much experience with d2 but have had quite a bit of experience with 3v. Compared to standard carbon steels (1095, a2, O1) 3v does not rust or patina at near the same rate. Not even close. A2 will rust just sitting in my house in the humid summer, nothing from 3v after years. 1095 used in the kitchen? Develops a Patina right away. Nothing from 3v even after not cleaning the knives until after the meal.

But in a sense you are correct. Anything can rust given the right "stuff" to force it.

I was speaking about putting a patina on carbon steel in general. It wasn't really misinformation, it just didn't apply to this particular steel as I thought it would.

I should have never assumed, and I should've figured out whether or not my patina information applied to this steel before even mentioning it.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Due to the fact that the op was wanting to patina it, I was under the assumption that it was a standard carbon steel.
And was just basing my posts off of that.

Will 3v really not take a patina? I figured you could force one on basically any steel given the right stuff to force it. Not trying to argue, just learn. I've forced a patina on D2 which is also a semi stainless...?

.... Please don't give advice out of ignorance I know we all do it, but still... You can 'google' this sort of stuff, y'know? And then relay that info, maybe?

D2 steel has twice the carbon content of 3V which results in a lot of the chromium tied up in carbides, much like how ZDP-189 will darken more quickly than one might expect from the chromium content. In 3V, the HT goal is to have the vanadium bind into carbide and leave the chromium free to prevent corrosion, and that does seem to be the case in the 3V I've handled (just the corrosion part, there's no way for me to confirm cabride make-up )

Does that mean it cannot be done? No, of course not, but it will take something a LOT stronger than run-of-the-mill vinegar, you may need to try an etchant or other high-molar acid. I have not done this myself and I suppose the only reason to do so would be aesthetics, so the individual desiring the look would need to experiment to achieve the "right" look. My experience with 3V is that it "freckles" when starts to corrode, i.e. tiny pockets of corrosion as opposed to a nice full-surface event. *shrug*

If someone throws some strong ferric chloride or hydrochloric acid on their 3V blade, please elt us know how it turns out!

 

[kniferbro]

craytab chiral.grolim thanks, makes sense.