Hello all my real name is Scott and I am new to blade making. I look for a answer to my question in the other post and came up empty. If it has been posted before I apologize in advance. Here's the question. How many layers is enough, when it comes to pattern welded blades. I just finished my first and it had a total of 44 layers. I have seen references to 300 and more so any info well be great. Thanks Scott.
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Pattern weled, how many layers?
- Thread starter klinge
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Welcome to the forums. The number of layers is totally dependent upon you. Well I need to preface that. If you are using all high carbon steel then the layer count is not that important. If you use a High Low carbon mix then it might. It all depends on how fast you are at getting there. After about 3 folds the carbon migration is pretty much complete. So the 44 layer will probably be fine. It may not have a lot of action in the layers but you can determine if it will work for you.
Many shoot for the 250 to 350 layer count. That is unless you are doing something other than the basic patterns. Once you go above the 1000 layer count things get so fine the pattern starts to meld. It all depends on the effect you are going for.
Play with it. See what works best for you and the application you are going after.
Many shoot for the 250 to 350 layer count. That is unless you are doing something other than the basic patterns. Once you go above the 1000 layer count things get so fine the pattern starts to meld. It all depends on the effect you are going for.
Play with it. See what works best for you and the application you are going after.
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You will probably not have a lot of contrast in the layers. Your last weld will be the most pronounced.
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Just thought I would post a pic of Scott's knife blade. He sent me an email with a pic attachment since he could not post one here. Well it looks really nice and thought more should see it. Hope you don't mind Scott.
Now I mentioned I did not think he would have much contrast but his has some great contrast. With a little more information I think we have discovered why. He thought he was using 1095 and mild. "The spring steel came from the torsion spring from a old VW front suspension." I am guessing, due to the extreme contrast seen, the spring was probably 5160 or the like. It was a nice surprise I think.
Scott the only problem might be when you HT this blade. I might not get quite hard enough as your carbon content may be in the .4s. But it will make a decent blade. I actually made a few from 5160 mild mix when I started out. Did not know any better. Then again who knows what the torsion spring of the front of a VW is made from? Might be a high carbon Nickle Alloy.
Now I mentioned I did not think he would have much contrast but his has some great contrast. With a little more information I think we have discovered why. He thought he was using 1095 and mild. "The spring steel came from the torsion spring from a old VW front suspension." I am guessing, due to the extreme contrast seen, the spring was probably 5160 or the like. It was a nice surprise I think.
Scott the only problem might be when you HT this blade. I might not get quite hard enough as your carbon content may be in the .4s. But it will make a decent blade. I actually made a few from 5160 mild mix when I started out. Did not know any better. Then again who knows what the torsion spring of the front of a VW is made from? Might be a high carbon Nickle Alloy.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Do the math before you start the welds. Many folks mark the folds on a chalk board, or on the anvil side when welding, as it can be easy to forget how many you have made.
With your number of layers (11) the weld count is 11,
one fold is 22,
two folds is 44,
three folds is 88,
four folds is 176,
five folds is 352.
That is enough for most folks, but for a finer pattern, you could go one more fold and get 704 layers. The higher the layer count the more the pattern gets shimmery. Also the carbon gets better diffused between the high and low layers, evening out to avoid hard and soft spots on the edge.
I usually consider 250 the minimum number of layers that looks good, unless there is a specific pattern desired, like a migration era sword or dagger.
With your number of layers (11) the weld count is 11,
one fold is 22,
two folds is 44,
three folds is 88,
four folds is 176,
five folds is 352.
That is enough for most folks, but for a finer pattern, you could go one more fold and get 704 layers. The higher the layer count the more the pattern gets shimmery. Also the carbon gets better diffused between the high and low layers, evening out to avoid hard and soft spots on the edge.
I usually consider 250 the minimum number of layers that looks good, unless there is a specific pattern desired, like a migration era sword or dagger.
another thing that may change your pattern is how thich your initial pieces are in your stack. ie;1/8" or 1/4".
I start with a stack of 11 pieces of 1/8" 1084 alternated with 10 pieces of 1/8" 15n20. fold twice for a fairly course parrten (84 layers)or 3 times for a finer one. (168 layers) If twisting the bar for a twist pattern fold one less time as the twist acts like an additional fold.
I start with a stack of 11 pieces of 1/8" 1084 alternated with 10 pieces of 1/8" 15n20. fold twice for a fairly course parrten (84 layers)or 3 times for a finer one. (168 layers) If twisting the bar for a twist pattern fold one less time as the twist acts like an additional fold.