Pay attention to the advice of experts

[dipbait]

My 12 year old son and I {Im fifty and in average condition}, went white water rafting for the first time this past week. We were paired with a guide by ourselves, three of us in one raft. The other two rafts had six floaters and a guide in each. The guides stressed several times to tighten the pfds , not everyone listened. On the baddest stretch of the water two rafters were tossed in. The raft they were in was unable to rescue them. There were only two teenagegirls, an overweight mother and a small boy left in that raft. Our guide recognized the peril immediately and ordered me and Nic to paddle and not stop. We shot by the other rafts and reached the father. His PFD was not tight and it was pulling up over his head. He had a look of horror on his face and could barely say "Help me." He weighed about 250 pounds. The guide and I grabbed him by the shoulder straps and jerked him into the craft. He was out of strength and had swallowed a lot of water. He laid there and puked unable to muster the strength to sit up. His son made it to shore. I believe in another thirty seconds this man would have drowned . Not listening to the advice of a trained professional almost cost him his life.

I cant say how proud I am of Nic. He paddled hard through the white water to reach the victim. For a twelve year old, he showed more courage and determination than I thought he had. A man is alive today because of it.

 

[barrabas74]

Thanks for the post, I have guided many rafting trips and there's always a few that think "I dont need it THAT tight do I?" a week ago I had to pull my dad in on a trip down the Yough...he was in the water maybe a second. I have pulled many people in and they do have a shear look of terror when that vest goes over there head. That guy was lucky you all got to him, the river is not a place too fool around.

The thing that I have noticed is not only loose vests but the inability of people in rafts to respond, many times they just stare in disbelief as the rafter gets pulled downstream or floats away.

 

[ilbruche]

Sometimes guiding is more like babysitting a bunch of little kids. Even on hiking trips you have to almost force people to drink water. You'd get women in the Sonoran desert not drinking water because they didn't want to have to pee. All right lady...don't drink water. You can just dehydrate and your husband can carry you out. You haven't experienced the joys of guiding rafting trips until your raft is filled with 12 Japanese tourists that speak no english.

 

[dipbait]

Barrabas, rafting is a blast. My son loved it. He wants to be guide when hes eighteen..

 

[dipbait]

Ilbruche. We were in Colorado , on the Arkansas through Big Horn canyon, above the Royal Gorge.Is that near you?

 

[Snakedoc]

I cant say how proud I am of Nic. He paddled hard through the white water to reach the victim. For a twelve year old, he showed more courage and determination than I thought he had. A man is alive today because of it.

Thats AWSOME! It takes alot of courage for a grown man to stay calm and react in a situation like this let alone a young man of twelve years. :thumbup:

 

[baldtaco-II]

I know this doesn't relate directly to your experience but it does to the title of your thread:

What constitutes an expert? In the specific case in this thread a pretty standard lexical definition will do, and it seems pretty clear that instruction ought to have been followed. But equally important is knowing when to completely disregard an apparent expert. The reason I say that is I find that 'expert' is a way overused phrase to simply describe a person one wants to have faith in. Whether that person truly knows, or is self-appointed, or just seems to know that tiny bit more than the disciple does doesn't seem to factor in. In the case here, which is very specific, it is a pretty safe bet that the guides had expertise, but what of the more general 'experts' we often stumble across.

I've been agog and aghast twice already this year at apparent outdoor experts. One episode involved beating a blade into a tree and standing on it, the other involved avoiding coffee in high temperatures because it is a diuretic. Both of these things have potentially adverse consequences yet apparently came from experts. On that, it is not mere semantics when I say that in the main I avoid the advice of experts and focus my beam very tightly on one that has very precise expertise...a specialist at X.

 

[Mountainman38]

My 12 year old son and I {Im fifty and in average condition}, went white water rafting for the first time this past week. We were paired with a guide by ourselves, three of us in one raft. The other two rafts had six floaters and a guide in each. The guides stressed several times to tighten the pfds , not everyone listened. On the baddest stretch of the water two rafters were tossed in. The raft they were in was unable to rescue them. There were only two teenagegirls, an overweight mother and a small boy left in that raft. Our guide recognized the peril immediately and ordered me and Nic to paddle and not stop. We shot by the other rafts and reached the father. His PFD was not tight and it was pulling up over his head. He had a look of horror on his face and could barely say "Help me." He weighed about 250 pounds. The guide and I grabbed him by the shoulder straps and jerked him into the craft. He was out of strength and had swallowed a lot of water. He laid there and puked unable to muster the strength to sit up. His son made it to shore. I believe in another thirty seconds this man would have drowned . Not listening to the advice of a trained professional almost cost him his life.

I cant say how proud I am of Nic. He paddled hard through the white water to reach the victim. For a twelve year old, he showed more courage and determination than I thought he had. A man is alive today because of it.

That's an awesome story! Thanks for sharing, and props to both you and your son for doing what needed to be done in a life and death situation.

 

[attej]

Great post, thanks!

Sometimes guiding is more like babysitting a bunch of little kids.

Heh, it seems that kids actually listen more than those middle-aged guys that of course "know" everything already. That attitude is stupid in so many ways... I mean, besides the obvious, why would someone pay for professional guidance, if hes not gonna try and learn from it?

 

[raybadge]

You should be very proud of your son, and you should be very satisfied with yourself as well. It certainly sounds like you saved that man's life.

I'm never more at home - or so at peace - as when I'm backcountry camping. But it's not for everyone. It sounds like you and your son can look forward to many years in the woods together. My son and I built a lifetime of memories in Boy Scouting and then in Venture Scouting . You may want to look into it.

 

[mete]

Yes many people today are clueless ! We've lost 5 this year here on the Delaware so far this year. Can't swim, no pfd, try to swim against the current,alchohol ,stupidity.And this is hardly a 'dangerous ' river. When you bring back a van full of canoers, cold, wet, tired, hungry and you find they have to be told to change clothes, set up tents ,prepare dinner, it's depressing !

 

[siguy]

its a shame that situation even happened, but congrats on the quick action of you and your son.

i agree on listening to those who know what they are talking about-as well as taking alot of things with a grain of salt. personally, if anything is out of the scope of my knowledge, i try to find someone to talk to about it, or i read about it in books or online. i like that saying (i think by ghandi) "live like you will die tomorow, learn like you will live forever" (paraphrased). i try my best to listen to those who know more than me.

 

[Bushman5]

right on! we need more kids like your boy!

 

[dipbait]

Yes many people today are clueless ! We've lost 5 this year here on the Delaware so far this year. Can't swim, no pfd, try to swim against the current,alchohol ,stupidity.And this is hardly a 'dangerous ' river. When you bring back a van full of canoers, cold, wet, tired, hungry and you find they have to be told to change clothes, set up tents ,prepare dinner, it's depressing !

Lost five aleady. I asked my guide how often people die on this river. He said "not many . Only seven so far this year. Five by heart attack."

...Im not ragging on this man or calling him stupid, I have no room to talk . I have learned from the fire service that if something is repeated , it is usually very important.