Pay per HOUR....

I know (or have read) how many knifemakers prefer having limited tools (especially power) to make their knives. They prefer a set of files and sandpaper to a grinder/buffer. If you go that route, unless your name commands a premium price, your labor costs will be much higher and your theoretical pay per hour much lower. That is what tools are for, to make jobs easier and more efficient in time and cost (in theory and in the long run).

Just a thought.
 
I have to say that my tools have been the best investment i have made. take my 2nd Amendment knife i make. befor i had a belt grinder i was spending tons of hours just to get the blade ready for heat treat. now i can start with a bar of steel and profile and hallow grind the edge bevils and be ready to heat treat in less then half an hr. I make knives because i love to. but i still think my time is worth charging for. If you are serious then invest in tools that will alow you to make a better knife faster.
 
My little hole in the wall shop is a combination welding, machining, engineering and knifemaking effort. If I take in any of the "conventional" shop work, my going rate is $30/hr; WAY below the normal minimum rate of $85/hr.
However, I don't charge by the hour for my knives. I really couldn't, considering I put in 10-30 hrs per knife. At the risk of sounding noble, my reward is the look in their eyes (and enough to cover materials for another batch ). But as you well know, "noble" does not pay the bills.
 
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My little hole in the wall shop is a combination welding, machining, engineering and knifemaking effort. If I take in any of the "conventional" shop work, my going rate is $30/hr; WAY below the normal minimum rate of $85/hr.
However, I don't charge by the hour for my knives. I really couldn't, considering I put in 10-30 nrs per knife. At the risk of sounding noble, my reward is the look in their eyes (and enough to cover materials for another batch ). But as you well know, "nobel" does not pay the bills.

that is a low price for a shop rate. the shop i work in charges 100-125 depending on what we are doing. just the wire EDM comands 120 an hr. And we are very busy with work as we do high end stuff that other shops cant do :D
 
I can see an EDM shop charging that rate. The last shop I worked for had two wires and a popper. They worked hard at keeping all three occupied as close to 24/7 as possible.
You definitely don't want EDM's standing around with nothing running.
 
I can see an EDM shop charging that rate. The last shop I worked for had two wires and a popper. They worked hard at keeping all three occupied as close to 24/7 as possible.
You definitely don't want EDM's standing around with nothing running.

yes that is true. some time you can see them cranking away on some knife blanks for me ;)
 
One of the reasons i started this thread is that i,ve had a coupla folks fondle my knives,tell me how much they like them and ask how much to buy one.Seeming to be serious about buying,but maybe i read them wrong.

When i replied $50.00 knowing that,s durn cheap considering the hours and expenses it took to make them,but willing to sell them at that price to help GET MY NAME OUT THERE,there interest faded quickly.

COMMENTS ?
 
Get used to it. Non-knife people are totally ignorant about steel, design, any aspect of quality cutlery you can name. These are the people who think a chinese knock-off is a good deal, with no understanding of the properties of steel or the use of a knife. They're not your customers. Don't worry, your customers are out there.

A guy at work once asked how much I'd charge to make him a knife. I asked a few questions to get an idea what he wanted and quoted him a price. He nearly choked! He said something to the effect, "I can buy a good Buck knife at Walmart for $35!" I told him it cost me more than that to make a knife and he looked at me like I'm crazy. He did not believe my claims of edge holding and would not accept my offer to prove it (if his money was on the table). He just would not believe there was sufficient value to make up the price difference.

These are the people who think handmade stuff is less quality than manufactured, who have no appreciation for custom design or the value of artistic endeavor; who cannot distinguish fit and finish. The world is full of them. Fortunately, there are plenty of people who do understand what actual quality is, and are willing to pay for it. You'll find out where they are, and they'll find you.

When you're ready, have professional photos taken of your work. Eventually the photos will find their way into one of the knife publications and you'll get a couple of calls. Find someone who sells knives at the local gun shows and see if you can arrange a consignment deal (or sell him). You're better off with a knife dealer than a gun seller though.

Anecdote: I foolishly ran my index finger onto the bandsaw blade last weekend. Fortunately it missed the fingernail! But try typing without your index finger sometime... :D This is when getting so longwinded is a detriment to me too! :D
 
Luckily some people actually appreciate quality and all they get with it.

I'm making a knife for a kid in the UK. A friend of ours asked how much I was charging for something like this (and while asking she was holing up my first piece....which works well but looks like crap). I told her that the one I'm makign for the english kid will go for 115 euro's all in.

She thought for a second and then asked me if I'd be willing to make something for her husband.

My knives aren't the best in looks yet. But they'll outperform most production blades (at least the ones in the lower priceranges), plus I garantee my (very few) customers for life, make the knife to THEIR hand size, make the sheath the way they want it and keep in touch with them the whole process through.

Even though I'm just a beginner....if you'd get all that from ANY production company even if it looked like crap, you'd pay at least DOUBLE that.

Some people understand that stuff....and others....I just don't bother with if they won't be educated.
 
Dave and LX, those are both very good explanations,and true to life i believe
 
So far I don't charge for my labor, I charge what the knife is worth. By that I mean I ask myself what I would pay for a knife of that quality and then add a little in consideration for the actual materials used. I think that's reasonable.

Price has a lot to do with the perceived value. If you don't charge enough, people will think your work is crap. I hear stories of makers who make 2 identical (or as close to) knives and charge a reasonable price for one and mark the other one up quite a bit. It seems every time, the more expensive knife sells first. Go figure!!

If I was a more recognized maker I could possibly get more for my work but right now I'm happy just being able to buy supplies with my knife sales (and so is my wife!)

If I get to a point where I have more demand for my work than I can handle, it's time for the price to go up. That way I earn more $ with fewer orders. One thing for sure, if you lose money on each one, you can't make it up in volume.
 
Hello:

I know I haven't been on this forum very long...In fact I am still a newbie, but I know for a fact that you can make a decent living if you are careful..

I run "studio time" at $90.00 an hour for custom work...Usually I average for my "product line" (stuff I can whip out in very little time) at around $75.00 and hour, plus materials.

Pattern welded materials I get about the usual $75.00 an hour but I am actually making more cause I am usually doing "other stuff" like fitting guards, soldering or hand work while the steels are heating so there is very little "down time"...

Now this sounds like a lot of money and I am a full time maker..You have to realise that I have to pay my own SSI, Health Ins, business Ins, electric, mortage and all that plus I do not get a "paid vacation" or any "sick days"...

I made a little over 62K last year..and 2008 really sucked for me...I couldn't do the one "big show" I usually do, and my sales dropped by a good $40 to 45K thanks to that.

My prices I would say are on the low side...I make enough $$ to keep us all fed and housed...and put something away for my old age (which isn't taht far off now..) so..I know I could get a lot more $$ for my work... but my papuli told me a long time ago "Never price your milk so high that it sours in the can"..and I followed that teaching all my life...

My prices start at $25.00 and go up from there....My "average" price for a knife in High Carbon is around $275.00...

I do not advertise other than my website and that keeps me very busy..so I am pretty much set...couple that with that one show I do and I am usually busy all year...

So you can do "it"..And I have been a full time maker more or less since 1987..minus the times my ARNG unit was activated..then it was "part time" maker (at best)...But now that I retired form the ARNG and all..I am back to swinging a hammer full time (more or less) and finally able to make product... 2009 so far has been a decent year....Much better than that firestorm that hit my personal life that started in 2006 and finally ended a little while ago....

If you are careful, know what you are doing and don't do anything "stupid" you should be OK...

Now I am a "nobody" maker...I don't usually do "knife shows" and I am doing pretty good..I am in a very comfortable and unusual situation compared to other makers, but what I did, anyone could of done...

NvHammerHead
 
A knifemaker is essentially an artisian - the vast majority cannot expect to make any real money, even if they are good at it. But this does not mean that a knifemaker should necessarily lower the price of his work. My feeling (and I'm very new at this) is that prices for knives that I see on this site are way too low. As a point of comparison, take a look at some of the knives at Arizona Custom Knives. They have a big site with knives from many makers. Many of these knives go for a grand or more. Anything that is made by hand should be priced commensurate with the time it takes to produce, irrespective of comparable market value. Anything less is selling yourself short. I am very new at this; I produced my first knife only last week. I'll post a pic soon but the next few look so much better than the first that I'd rather wait and show something that I'm a little more proud of. I will not sell any knives. Reason - no one will be willing to pay what I am asking and I will not be willing to part with the knife for less than the value of my time that it took to produce the knife.
 
I apologize in advance for going against the grain of this thread...


If I can't pull in at least $40/hr for my shop, I will go under....plain and simple.

Knifemaking is a business first, pleasure second....it has to be profitable to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, though...I enjoy what I do very much!


I paid my dues to get where I am at now....and "ate" a lot of knives before sales could keep me in the "black". It does take time...and part of paying your dues is going through that "discouragement phase" when you are new...trying to figure out your pricing...and your style...and what works best for you.


My suggestion for newbie makers is to price your stuff at what the market will bear (minus a little for lack of experience) and go with the flow. Then as you get better...the time you spend on a knife will decrease...your quality will go up...and your "hourly rate" will go up naturally...even if your prices stay the same. ;)


Dan
 
Mr. Koster:

I don't see where you are going against the grain at all...You need to make what you need to make and that's the honest truth. I need to make what I need to as well...It is a business as you said. The real difference is full time makers that price accordingly comensurate with their skill and "name" vs the part timers who are more than happy to work for a dollar or so an hour ...

The public has a "percieved value" on what things should cost, and sometimes (most of the time actually) it is off by a good bit. Now my clientele, as limited as it is..does know what all goes into properly making a hand forged blade. Most folks, alas, do not but some do.

EDUCATION of the public is key here. There are very, very few custom makers that can compete with a mass produced blade price wise..Simple fact..I know I can't..but what sets "us" apart is the quality, the "customer service" and the ability to make something that is truly "one of a kind"..How do you "market" that? Through education and showing folks the options, the differences and the "whole package".

As I said before..I am a "nobody"..I don't do shows, other than RPFS simply because that is where my majority of my market lies..Historical re-enactment...I use to do shows a while back but I dropped out when I lost my best friend all those years ago...

Hardly anyone at a knife show would even look twice at me...let alone has "heard of me"...I tend to keep to myself and advoid "notice"...Yet I do very well and I turn away more work than I accept. I tend to keep to myself and I enjoy my privacy. I work full 8 to 10 hour days, usually 5 days a week, the rest of that time I spend with my family and the few close friends I have had for decades. I leave the studio "closed" after hours (usually) as that is my "day job"...my "off time" is just that...a Sanity break...family time and just time to unwind...

But, as you said..you need to make what you need to make or else you will simply go under and that's that. The "part timers"...well I was a part time maker when I first started and I sold a good deal...but my pricing structure really hasn't changed all that much... But "hobbiest makers" do tend to throw a wrench into the works when it comes to the market, but that's pretty much true with any thing hand made...You just do what you need to do..

I do pretty much everything here "in house" ..from forging to grinding to heat treating to making steel to bluing to leather to whatever..(I need serious help with the leather...but I am working on it...) I even draw my own wire and make my own German Silver bar and sheet..

But the again I have been doing this for over 40 years total....

As I said, if you price your work fairly..you can make a decent living....If you don't price it fairly, one way or another you probably will fail.

I am just me...no one special and I make decent enough money to be comfortable and support my wife and three children.... and I am a nobody...just some guy in southern Nevada forging blades...

I am thinking about doing a knife show..that one in Pasadena Calif next year...probably won't sell a dang thing but I would like to see what sort of new "stuff" is available supply wise..

I don't "need" to do shows..my website keeps me very busy..(most other makers are not in the same position that I am, I realise this fully..I have "paid my dues" and I am enjoying the fruits of my labours).. I'm just thinking it would be a good excuse to take a road trip...

NVHammerHead
 
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