Paying full MSRP at a dealer vs buying online

I like BM stores. They really seem to be a dying breed now. The only ones I can seem to find anymore are the big box camping stores and gun shops with a "small" collection of quality knifes. I was lucky and found a local dealer here a few days ago who carries a lot of things that I had never seen before, and the guy is a total knife knut. Hell, he had some things there for cheaper than what I would pay for it online at most retailers, including a ZT0100 for $215, but I think he would have been justified for selling it at upwards of $270 just because you cannot find those things in any BM store that you happen to be lucky enough to find.

In the end, I will always prefer BM stores because I can handle the product first; because I can have that instant gratification that as soon as I pay the man I have the knife in my hand; and because I am just a little leary still of buying things for some unknown entity that I have never had any personal interaction with. I honestly feel that a good BM is justified in charging anywhere from %20-30 above what you can find for the same blade in an online store for all the reasons listed above. Also, economically it makes sense that you would pay more, simply because a BM store has overhead costs the an Internet Retailer doesn't have or doesn't have to fork out nearly as much cash for.

BTW, this is AZ, and it is exceedingly difficult to find dedicated quality knife dealers here, and this is the state where you can carry anything from a Double-Action OTF automatic to a machete as your EDC and no one can say a damn thing about it.
 
flash900 said:
I won't check out gear in one place and then buy somewhere cheaper. It's theft of services.

But I don't have the luxury of a choice when it comes to knives: there's no decent B&M knife dealer near me.

So I have to rely on online, where my priorities are both price and service.

I always request a QC check to make sure blade is centered and sharp with no blade play and opens and closes easily.

I ordered two Spydies last week at one of my favorite dealers. When I got the confirmation email from the manager, I reminded her of my request.

She responded, we'll take care of you.

Which I took to be a "yes," but in retrospect seems like it could mean anything.

One of the knives came visibly off-center.

When I wrote the manager, the owner responded that sometimes they just don't get around to fulfilling requests such as mine.

He didn't offer to do anything.

I wrote again, saying a QC check upon request was the most important thing I wanted from him.

I got no response.

This is a well-known dealer with a fine reputation, but I'll need a better response before I'm able to trust him again.
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I don't have Spydercos (yet) but I do that as a standard part of the ordering process. It takes a while to inspect every damn piece that passes through my hands, but it makes everyone happier. :)

I used to work at a B&M store, and we did quite well. That being said, the shop was in Bar Harbor--Tourist Central! I think the big thing with a B&M is location location location.
 
Like many of the others here, I try to support local businesses as much as possible. It's nice to shop locally. That said, I also have to make the most of my dollar, so if the price is hugely different, I'm going to go with the more affordable item. Afterall, I have to say in "business" too.
 
i cant think of any local stores that have much selection, the normal big names like wal-mart, ace hardware, ect. so i figure... why not just buy online? i think its just the sad way of the future.. i try and stay away from ebay and amazon and buy from smaller operations online. honestly, blade forums is where i found the best online dealers
 
There's something wrong with the retail sector if Product A, in a local shop, costs more than double Product A costs on the internet.

Example:

In store or from local online retailers, a Leatherman Charge TTi cost $285-350.

On ebay, I bought it for $120.

$120 vs. $300. I would have paid $150-160 in store for it, but $350??? Please!

I only really buy clothing and food in person now, everything else online.

I think it's time for these local retailers to get with the times and set up a website, ebay store, etc. Even if it means cutting staff and inventory to a bare minimum in storefront. I don't like to see retailers go under, but I also like to see people with a better business model succeed.

This year, I met a local artist who heads into the bush to paint landscapes a few times a year. He goes to art shows and sells them piece by piece. It's very time intensive and he usually runs at a loss.

After he told me his story, I told him to get a decent video camera and still camera. He said he had both. I helped him set up a Youtube channel and also made him a fairly basic yet presentable website. I charged him a small fee for the site and also for the service of helping him.

He went out in March on one of his painting trips. This time, he documented the journey with plenty of photography and wide angle video. He made videos of himself and his friends painting in the wilderness, as well as having a good time and whatnot. Plenty of beautiful photography.

Once he got back, I helped him create a Youtube video combining his video footage with some choice photos. At the beginning and end of the film, a slideshow of his paintings was added.

After that, I added the video to his webpage along, along with HD photos of his paintings. These illustrations are located beside the online store, so people interested in buying a painting can essentially watch it being painted as well as the context of the painting.

He sold his stock with almost no effort and no need to drive to art shows.

His friends who did not embrace the online world are still struggling to sell theirs (of arguably better quality) at art shows in person.

^ Just an example of the evolution of business. The artist whom I assisted for a small fee (he's a friend) ended up recouping his expenses and paying for his next outing in merely 5 weeks of listing his paintings on the internet along with a blog and video/photos showing the making of the pictures. Just a note, of the 4 paintings he sold, 3 of them were to overseas buyers.

--

This applies to selling knives as well. The stores who market themselves best will win, and right now the local market cannot compete against the online and overseas combined market. Embrace the online and overseas markets, or go out of business.

It's not up to you to change the world with your wallet. If you can get a price for cheaper overseas or online and don't mind the wait, then do that. If you can pick up a product in store for a reasonable 'touch and feel' premium then that's okay too.

If you care about your local business, then get politically active and petition for import tarrifs and an end to free trade (esp. with 'evil' nations). Free trade is not fair for your local economy. It only benefits nations where wages/incomes/standard of living are weaker and cheaper. Fair trade > Free trade, but it isn't something you can change with your wallet, only your vote.
 
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The local Brick & Mortar and I have a love/hate thing going on. I love to wander down and browse, handle the knives, chat with the staff, look at some of the other goodies, etc. I hate walking out empty handed, and I especially resent paying roughly 60% more for a knife than I would online. But I keep doing it.

Why? Well, for a few reasons, I suppose. I like the idea of supporting the local economy. I like the people who work down at the shop and have a good rapport with them. I guess it's a bit more social and personal than an online shopping session. As long as they keep their prices around MSRP (which is fair, imo) I reckon I'll keep shopping there.

I used to prefer dealing with live tellers at the bank rather than use the ATM, until they started to give me the 'stink-eye' and lecturing me about using the machine. Gave me the impression that I was bothering them. Now that's poor customer service! If I ever walk into a B&M and they give me a dirty look and a website referral, I won't be back.
 
flash900 said:
I won't check out gear in one place and then buy somewhere cheaper. It's theft of services.

But I don't have the luxury of a choice when it comes to knives: there's no decent B&M knife dealer near me.

So I have to rely on online, where my priorities are both price and service.

I always request a QC check to make sure blade is centered and sharp with no blade play and opens and closes easily.

I ordered two Spydies last week at one of my favorite dealers. When I got the confirmation email from the manager, I reminded her of my request.

She responded, we'll take care of you.

Which I took to be a "yes," but in retrospect seems like it could mean anything.

One of the knives came visibly off-center.

When I wrote the manager, the owner responded that sometimes they just don't get around to fulfilling requests such as mine.

He didn't offer to do anything.

I wrote again, saying a QC check upon request was the most important thing I wanted from him.

I got no response.

This is a well-known dealer with a fine reputation, but I'll need a better response before I'm able to trust him again.
Click to expand...

GB&U that sucker.
 
Only suckers pay full retail ;) That is why Al Gore invented the Internet.
 
shortwinger said:
All the reasons given are exactly why there are no good knife stores. Example: CS Recon Scout:
CS Dealer cost - $98
CS MSRP - $189.99

Online Price:
Lowest $115.75 (free shipping)
Average $120.00

The online dealers are willing to make $10 per knife but they pay no bills such as employees, rent, electricity, insurance, etc. Plus they usually sneak in a few dollars on the shipping and then most are done. No one shows up at your door complaining about a scratch, or returns it after using it expecting Wal-Mart like returns. Even when they get a cheap Chinese knock-off they rarely send it back.

With the online dealers, no local store in their right mind will even carry knives. All they hear about from the customer is how cheap they can get in online. So they waste your time, tell you what you already know and in the end, don't buy anything. Stores typically have a 100% markup for a reason, thats the price of keeping the doors open. Since the internet isn't likely to die, you won't see many knife stores popping up any time soon.
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Good info. Something to pass on. Thanks Bill

Something to note: 3 of the large Manufactures owners hate Internet sales and wish the customers would get service with the sale, someone to stand behind their hard work.
 
darthsoaker said:
GB&U that sucker.
Click to expand...

There was another dealer I dealt with when I was getting started, largely because of price and a great recommendation (paid, it turns out) from a well-known YT reviewer.

The dealer never did respond to any of my written requests with purchases to check for QC.

I found that lack of response puzzling, so I sent an email query and found out that he's a drop-shipper: his cheap prices are based upon never seeing the products he sells.

I've since learned that many of the items this dealer lists for sale, he not only never stocks, he can't sell because he's not an authorized reseller -- he can't even order those items.

There's more of this going on than we know, I suspect. Just like with B&M stores, consumers must decide how much they're willing to pay for service vs rock-bottom price.

Before I knew any of this, I simply went for the lowest possible price (with shipping.)

Now, I shop all the dealers (to find out the lowest price) and then buy from the dealer who will give me the level of service that I need. That let's me know how much I'm paying for service. If it's too much for my wallet, I won't buy -- and I won't buy without service.

Six months from now, I probably won't remember what I paid for the merchandise. But if the item has a flaw, I'll be pissed off for as long as I own it.
 
MDCCLXXVI said:
There's something wrong with the retail sector if Product A, in a local shop, costs more than double Product A costs on the internet.

Example:

In store or from local online retailers, a Leatherman Charge TTi cost $285-350.

On ebay, I bought it for $120.

$120 vs. $300. I would have paid $150-160 in store for it, but $350??? Please!...
Click to expand...

Leatherman is a great discussion...to be an Authorized dealer for them (We dropped them over a year ago) you Buy in at $5k of product for the best deal but in doing so you sign a MAP (Manufacturers Authorized Price) Deal in short this is a contract that states you will only sell their items at this discount and they keep "Big Box Stores= Costco, Walmart" from stocking some items for 2 years.

So the good news is you get the NEWEST Stuff first but have a Rep (My Rep is a GREAT Guy) that comes in and checks your prices every other Month...but if caught selling below Map your store is out for life. So people on eBay, or online below MAP are not Authorized Dealers. So that new Leatherman has no Warranty with receipt and was purchased from a low life Authorized Dealer selling under the counter to a reseller.

Leatherman is not the only MAP type Dealer...many other Manufacturers that hate the Internet are doing the same. Nikon is the most Evil Co. that comes to mind they buy off the Net and search the serial number to put the dealer in check.
 
^ wow, thas quite the insurance policy for those companies

as to the in person vs. online deal, I too, fall for instant gratification premiums, ie bought a CB Leek for $100, (well $10 off since it was the display model without box) but i find i try out the higher end knives just to see the F&F and ergos while buy the less expencive models since the mark-ups dont bother me as much at that level
 
IMHO, it will be easier in the end, for the gubberment to shut down an on-line sales of knives & guns, than actual store fronts. They are not visible when in business (online), so will not be noticed as much when out of business. I buy from both store fronts & online. Some of the markups are rediculous though. Imagine what the markup will be when there are no more ???
 
Unfortunately, it seems that many people don't really get that choice, not even on that side of the Atlantic Ocean (I'm in Europe). Decent knife stores are rare...
Personally, I love to feel a knife in my hands before I buy it, but almost never have the opportunity to do that. So for me buying online is more or less the only solution. Anyway, speaking in general, I would support the local shop if it really gave me a service (and not just sell knives, which is a very different thing), and if the price was reasonably close to the internet price.
Meanwhile, I have to trust other people's opinions (mainly on this forum) and trust my feelings and vibes towards a knife...oh and trust my wallet too but that's another story...
:cool:
 
oh man... I have the exact same story.. wanted a minigrip so bad... paid 95 bucks for it for instant gratification, but not only did I just want the mini dejavoo, I went for the instant gratification again and grabbed that a week later.
 
Major knife boutique in Santa Fe obviously could not have cared less when I brought back the big Schrade folding hunter I'd bought a few days previous-- play had developed in the pivot-- and asked them to give it back to the jobber and give me a new one-- which just about any reputable retail shop (L.L.Bean, etc.) would have done no questions. It would have been no skin off their teeth. They told me sniffily to mail it to Schrade. I've not been back since. Buy my knives (Boker) off the Net from the manufacturer. Or get them as gifts (Terzuola, Emerson, etc.)
 
Well lol, i live in NYC... MANHATTAN... where the laws are CRAZY STRICT... and knife shops are close to non-existant... but at paragon sports store.. they had quite a nice selection... online that is (supposedly in store aswell)... well i checked it out, and i remember i saw a knife i had bought in the past for around, oh i dono i'd say $115... well paragon had priced it at around $200-250!...

if u go to their site, they have alot of knives... that are $4,000-$7,000 which is F _ _ _ _ _ _ ridiculous in my opinion as i do not think they should expect to sell any of those... i mean really.. who would buy a knife of that price off of a sports store....and not a knife maker himself...

Just my 2 cents... oh and i NEVER buy in-store... not even out in cabellas... for instance i saw the BM 2550, cabellas had it at around $205... went home that nite and did some research... i found it online for around $150 new... then i said hmm leme check BF... well i got the black coated blade with serrations for about $95-$100.. oh and 1 more thing.. not as much as a smudge.. it was off of a soldier who has a big knife collection just like the rest of us.. he intended to carry it, but when he recived it he said i just couldn't have 1... so he bought 2 more.. in total he had 3... sold me 1 (brand new in box) think it was $100....
half the price of the store/msrp...
the lesson to be learnt here is.. just buy online because for the same amount of money u'd spend in a store.. u could get a whole other knife along with the other 1 =D...

later guys!
 
Man, I find this interesting to read all the comments. I used to run a bike shop and know what its like to struggle with pricing. As a consumer, nobody wants to be a sucker and pay more than they have to -- so there has to be a benefit. At the same time, as a seller, you feel that you're offering a service that deserves some credit. You spend time with the customer trying to build a relationship, attempt to stock a wide selection because people expect that, and you have to pay for the lights and the labor to keep the doors open. On top of that, you have to deal with the occasional person that just assumes you're ripping him off no matter what. Aww the joys of retail.

The trick is determining what people are willing to pay for... and everyone will have a different opinion --- from the super loyal "i only buy from my local store" to the opportunistic jerk "i'll intentionally go play with it in the store, talk to the people that know something and then go buy it online for the cheapest price". ...side bar-- once knew a true a=hole that would buy from the local store for instant gratification, then go order it online elsewhere to get a cheaper price and then return the online purchase to the retail store"... not to give anyone ideas -- this was just one window into the kind of person he was. Not someone you'd trust for a second.

All that said, 20% premium is about my realistic cut-off before I feel like a sucker for anything up to $200. Sadly, I see a few shops in my area that just don't seem to try. They have prices way out of line or they don't know their product, or don't care to know their customer. I hate to see a local shop go out of business, but if you expect people to offer you charity without building a relationship... then good luck. Even then, expect some people only look at the tag... nothing else. My local shop tries - they know the products, they compare their prices, they show me things I hadn't seen or considered and they act like they want to see me back. This is what gets my extra 20% and makes me still feel good.
 
Living in the Netherlands pretty much the only brand that I'll buy in a store is Böker. They seem to be the only ones that get sold even close to MSRP over here....every brand from outside of Europe (and some from inside of Europe) are priced at close to 200% msrp....I'm not paying for that.
 
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