Horsewright
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2011
- Messages
- 13,229
We've been in business a little over 20 years now. So when PayPal came along we didn't initially jump on the bandwagon. We were already set up. Eventually we did start accepting PayPal and finally moved to having Paypal also being our merchant account where they processed all our credit card transactions as well. I can tell you there are several advantages to this outfit for a small business like us where we actually make our living off of what we make and sell. Not waiting 3-5 days for you money to show up in your account is cool and also taking their fees off the top on every transaction. Most traditional card processors would sometime during the month (ya never knew when), hit ya for all the fees, all at once, for the past month for each transaction (so ya never knew how much either).
One of my hesitations going full out with Paypal was reading (often in these pages but other places too) how PP always finds for the customer when Goods and Services (the only way we sell) is used and a transaction is challenged. I'd just seen this so many times here and else where that I was concerned. Not a bad deal if you are only a customer, not so great if you are on the other side of the fence.
Well it finally happened. After thousands of transactions, we get an email from PP saying that a customer had challenged a sale saying that it was an "unauthorized charge". In their email PP has a whole system for presenting your side of the story including a narrative of your side of the dispute and scanning and sending them any documentation.
So we look up the paperwork. Now I'm not gonna mention the guys name, as far as I know he is not a BF member. He called us towards the end of Apr and placed a phone order for a custom knife. I was getting ready to start a batch and had an extra blade of the type he wanted already back from heat treat. Very simple to add another blade to the batch. At that time we took what we call a Pending Order. We filled out the order form for him over the phone, blade type, bolster material, handle material and type of sheath No money up front. When the knife is almost finished (usually about the time I start the sheath) we'll call and get CC info or PP info however the customer wants to pay. We do it this way as the sheath is where customization often comes in with initials, brands etc, maybe left handed sheath or something else. There is no obligation if the guy decides at that time he doesn't want the knife, no biggie the knife goes up for sale on our website. Basically a first right of refusal kinda deal, a Pending Order really just tells me what to build. So the wife contacts the guy towards the end of May, he does want the knife and provides his CC # and also a billing address since that was different than the shipping address. The transaction goes through normally and we FedEx him the knife. It was delivered Jun 2nd according to the FEDEX tracking which we always attach to each order form. He'd asked to be notified when it shipped and we did so, the order form also indicating that the wife had talked to him in person not just leaving a message. We'd received the PP challenge email in the first week of Aug.
So we scanned all our paperwork, and attached it to the PP email and sent er off. About five days later the $ for the knife was removed from our account. A few days later not hearing anything from PP, we call them. The rep says we should of responded to the email. We told him we did and he said they had not received anything. So we re submitted all the info while on the phone with him and he confirmed they received it. Pretty much the party line from him. It will take some time to decide and really its out of PP hands as the customer had made the challenge with his bank, we just processed it. This of course didn't leave us with much of a great feeling about this being resolved in our favor.
So here we are no money for the sale, and no product. We've had absolutely no contact with the customer. He didn't say hey I don't like the knife, hey I didn't get the knife, hey Fed Ex tossed it over the fence and my dog ate it (has happened a couple of times), nothing. All this of course was explained in our PP rebuttal. Basically two months after receiving the knife he contacts the bank and says I didn't authorize this charge and the money is removed from our account. Yeah bad feeling. Interestingly PP never asked "Where's the knife?" Just bad feelings.
Wrong! Bout a week later PP emails again and says the dispute has been found in your favor and the $ was put back in the account. Actually the $ showed up a day or so before we got the email. So in the end we weren't scammed and PP doesn't always find for the customer. PP has this reputation of being so big, so monolithic that they just do what they want. But credit to them they did do the right thing this time. Just thought I'd share with you guys
One of my hesitations going full out with Paypal was reading (often in these pages but other places too) how PP always finds for the customer when Goods and Services (the only way we sell) is used and a transaction is challenged. I'd just seen this so many times here and else where that I was concerned. Not a bad deal if you are only a customer, not so great if you are on the other side of the fence.
Well it finally happened. After thousands of transactions, we get an email from PP saying that a customer had challenged a sale saying that it was an "unauthorized charge". In their email PP has a whole system for presenting your side of the story including a narrative of your side of the dispute and scanning and sending them any documentation.
So we look up the paperwork. Now I'm not gonna mention the guys name, as far as I know he is not a BF member. He called us towards the end of Apr and placed a phone order for a custom knife. I was getting ready to start a batch and had an extra blade of the type he wanted already back from heat treat. Very simple to add another blade to the batch. At that time we took what we call a Pending Order. We filled out the order form for him over the phone, blade type, bolster material, handle material and type of sheath No money up front. When the knife is almost finished (usually about the time I start the sheath) we'll call and get CC info or PP info however the customer wants to pay. We do it this way as the sheath is where customization often comes in with initials, brands etc, maybe left handed sheath or something else. There is no obligation if the guy decides at that time he doesn't want the knife, no biggie the knife goes up for sale on our website. Basically a first right of refusal kinda deal, a Pending Order really just tells me what to build. So the wife contacts the guy towards the end of May, he does want the knife and provides his CC # and also a billing address since that was different than the shipping address. The transaction goes through normally and we FedEx him the knife. It was delivered Jun 2nd according to the FEDEX tracking which we always attach to each order form. He'd asked to be notified when it shipped and we did so, the order form also indicating that the wife had talked to him in person not just leaving a message. We'd received the PP challenge email in the first week of Aug.
So we scanned all our paperwork, and attached it to the PP email and sent er off. About five days later the $ for the knife was removed from our account. A few days later not hearing anything from PP, we call them. The rep says we should of responded to the email. We told him we did and he said they had not received anything. So we re submitted all the info while on the phone with him and he confirmed they received it. Pretty much the party line from him. It will take some time to decide and really its out of PP hands as the customer had made the challenge with his bank, we just processed it. This of course didn't leave us with much of a great feeling about this being resolved in our favor.
So here we are no money for the sale, and no product. We've had absolutely no contact with the customer. He didn't say hey I don't like the knife, hey I didn't get the knife, hey Fed Ex tossed it over the fence and my dog ate it (has happened a couple of times), nothing. All this of course was explained in our PP rebuttal. Basically two months after receiving the knife he contacts the bank and says I didn't authorize this charge and the money is removed from our account. Yeah bad feeling. Interestingly PP never asked "Where's the knife?" Just bad feelings.
Wrong! Bout a week later PP emails again and says the dispute has been found in your favor and the $ was put back in the account. Actually the $ showed up a day or so before we got the email. So in the end we weren't scammed and PP doesn't always find for the customer. PP has this reputation of being so big, so monolithic that they just do what they want. But credit to them they did do the right thing this time. Just thought I'd share with you guys
Last edited:
- some lessons learned there. Glad it all worked out for you in the end Dave. 
