Paypal, the forums, ethics, and you.

Spark

Spark

HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate
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My views on Paypal as a payment system aren't exactly hidden. I'm not fond of them, nor am I a fan of their anti-gun, anti-weapon stance. They've screwed over a lot of people over the years and burned many a forum owner.

Despite this, many of you have requested we accept paypal as a method of payment.

It troubles me to compromise my ethics and help support an organization that actively helps causes that want to eliminate our rights around the world, and goes out of their way to push their agenda on people.

However, I also don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

I'm opening this thread to encourage discussion on this topic. Please let me know how you feel either way.
 
I'll chime in, something you may or may not know. Paypal members can request a debit card that deducts from their account balance. This card works like a mastercard and everywhere mastercard is accepted.

BFC accepts mastercard, Paypal is already being used here for membership dues.

As far as politics go, I too disagree with Paypals stance on firearms. But then again, if I disassociate myself from every liberal in town, I would lose half my business and half of my friends and family. It's a tough call though.
 
I too disagree with Paypals anti gun, anti weapon stance, but until there is a viable alternative, they are necessary.
 
I did not know Paypal is anti-gun/stance, now I have a hole in my stomach. But I will still use it for convenience.
 
It`s up to you, Spark, but I think it would be a good idea to make things as easy as possible for people to pay you. My guess uis that if you took Paypal, a great many more members would upgrade their memberships.
 
As long as the pro-weapon dealer makes more money than Paypal does on the transactions, I don't mind it much. I've spent a lot of money on knives through Paypal, and have never noticed their rhetoric. Not to say it isn't there, but while they take their cut, I'm throwing more money at knife makers and sellers, and all participate in active discussion about the good aspects of knives as tools and art.
 
A wiser man than myself once told me, "Choose your battles, because you can't fight 'em all"...

Hold you ground on your view, but look at it this way... If you offer PayPal as a payment option, this would be helping to increase revenue here, a site that they might view overall as weapons friendly. Just a little irony there. ;)

However, I'd say that the customer should have to cover the PP fees if they wish to use this option. Let them support PayPal and their anti-weapons stance if they so choose.

Of course, I don't know how they've burned other forum owners, so knowing what you know might change my opinion considerably...
 
I would be more concerned with opening a Paypal account to accept fees, and then having it locked or frozen. This would shut that system down, cause more user complaints, and possibly leave you out a good chunk of change.

Why accept Paypal? People can use the Paypal "Plug-In" to generate secure cards (MC) that they can then pay the site with. Less bull for you to deal with, no fees, no constantly looking over your shoulder.

As Rob said, balance how much you're loosing by not accepting Paypal. My guess is few people find it so offensive they don't get a membership.

Jaxx: Charging more for Paypal to cover fees is a major problem. You will get your account frozen if you're caught.
 
hardheart said:
As long as the pro-weapon dealer makes more money than Paypal does on the transactions, I don't mind it much. I've spent a lot of money on knives through Paypal, and have never noticed their rhetoric. Not to say it isn't there, but while they take their cut, I'm throwing more money at knife makers and sellers, and all participate in active discussion about the good aspects of knives as tools and art.
Click to expand...

What happens if Paypal (or eBay, or whatever parent holding company) decides to support someone politically? Think worst case. You're supporting Paypal by allowing it as a payment option.

My vote is stick to your guns. Paypal is fine for private sales, that you can't really control. The site as a whole you can, and I'd much rather support you, and you alone, then you and an anti-gun / anti-weapon company.
 
Spark said:
...many of you have requested we accept paypal as a method of payment.
Click to expand...

Would memberships gained be enough to insure against this:
Spark said:
...They've screwed over a lot of people over the years and burned many a forum owner.
Click to expand...

If so, it's a good business decision. If not, it isn't.

The ethical question, if it's now debatable, can be viewed in a somewhat similar comparison of risk. How much influence does PP have on our rights as knife and/or gun owners? If only a little, accepting them probably won't change the balance much. If a lot, than it might. How much is too much? I surely don't know.

I have a PP account myself, mainly because there are times it's the only form of payment accepted. I'm therefore in no position to tell anyone they shouldn't deal with them. Even still, while I could understand why you would choose to accept PP despite your misgivings, given the choice I'd be happier to learn you didn't.
 
I have heard the many horror stories of the crap that Paypal pulls at times because of their absurd policies. I loathe this in principle and i would use another service that was just as user friendly(in a manner of speaking), and dead useful, and i would probably not even mind a slightly higher processing fee or whatever, in the cause of a less restrictive service. I am not aware, however, of such a thing. A little ingenuity on the users part can bypass many of the problems, so i tolerate them because they are so damn useful.
 
I have heard tales of businesses getting their accounts frozen because they sold "weapons." All it would take is one asshat (maybe a banned troll) to contact them, and the morons at Paypal could easily screw you. . . Guess you have to weigh the risk against the possible increased revenue.
 
As long as this site will provide a SAFE and SECURE alternative to paypal then I have no issue with typing in my info for the benefit of being a member to this site.
 
It's just as easy to use a debit card. That's what I used. Most all PP accounts are linked to a checking account which will have issued a debit card. I say stick to your guns Spark.
 
The sky is falling....

In business, the customer is always right.

Of course I don't support their policies, but the incredible ease and worldwide acceptance of PP make it unwise to be in business and consider otherwise. The growth of this site's membership FAR outweighs the weak stance they take.

One voice.

Coop
 
I personally use Paypal for convenience but if you don't want to,I don't see a problem with it,your secure payment feature works fine.
 
I see both sides however as a consumer if paypal is the method of payment; I head elsewhere.
 
I only use paypal when I cannot use credit/debit card. I do not prefer to use paypal at all and I feel guilty using them.

I would not trust them as a major source of revenue if what you say about them screwing many others is true. I would not use them unless I am positive that whatever hit they may deal to me in the future I will be able to recover from easily.

I believe if paypal found it more profitable to make a show by making an example of what ignorant people view as a weapons dealing group they would do it.
 
I have issues with PP and its friends too but it might help things along with international members.
I suppose the PP account could always be closed if it causes problems rather than solving them any way.

I try not to use paypal my self and really only use it for personal sales where there is no reasonable alternative.
 
Josh K said:
I would be more concerned with opening a Paypal account to accept fees, and then having it locked or frozen. This would shut that system down, cause more user complaints, and possibly leave you out a good chunk of change.
Click to expand...

There is also a time lag between the money transfer and the time/date you can actually pull the money out of your account (or even see it credited)...PayPal says this right on their site; 3 - 4 business days...I've asked my financial institution (a FCU) about this and they say it is a delay instigated by PayPal, not the system...they say the deposit to your account should be instantaneous...and with my federal paycheck allotments, it is...

There is also the chance that you may encounter an unverified/bogus PayPal transfer (it's happened to me)...
 
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