Paypal, the forums, ethics, and you.

I use ppl occassionally, but I don't care for them & their policies. If Sparks should accept them as a payment option, I would anticipate an increase in membership fees, to cover Sparks fees as a vendor. As mentioned, in private transactions, those pesky fees can be added to a selling price. About a year ago I joined Gunbroker, and after 20 transactions without ppl, I can't say I miss them, and the trip to the Post Office for a money order is tolerable. If Sparks only opted for m/o's...I'd renew my membership.
 
Scott Hartman said:
If Sparks only opted for m/o's...I'd renew my membership.
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+1

I dislike using my credit cards because they *all* raised my rates...I believe my VISA charges me 28% now, compounded... :mad:

I'd rather pay the $1.05 to the USPS for the MO...or was it $.89???... :confused:
 
I felt much the same way for years but what turned it around was a simple check into the terms of service agreement. What I read is this which is part 'h' and part 'i' in the acceptable use policy found on their website beginning-You may not use the PayPal service for activities that relate to sales of: (h) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (i) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law

Our normal dealings do not apply because what most of us sell is not a 'regulated' item under law.

What I read is that PayPal is no more "anti-gun" than they are "anti-smoking", or "anti-drinking" just because they also decline to permit transactions in tobacco or alcohol products which obviously are regulated items. Basically they don't do much different than most of the places we deal with for anything else. You can't blame them for protecting themselves legally here or for wanting to protect their members and thats basically why they have these limitations. I don't see it as reading they are anti anything so much as they are just legally covering their own behind. Reading the acceptable policy they also don't allow selling of third party info and other such things all relating to regulated items or things such as gambling but I don't see that as meaning they are anti gambling either. Chances are that many of their employees shoot actively, own and carry knives, gamble and drink and smoke.

Besides all this I've found pay pal to be invaluable to me for international transactions making it very convenient to not only be paid promptly but convert currency to US dollars or the other way around should I be the buyer.

STR
 
chickentrax said:
I dislike using my credit cards because they *all* raised my rates...I believe my VISA charges me 28% now, compounded... :mad:
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The solution to that is simple: don't carry a balance. Pay the amount due in full at the end of each month and the rate doesn't matter. That's what I do and quite frankly I don't even know what my rate is. You just need the discipline of "you don't spend money you don't have". No different than using cash for everything and much more convenient.
 
I don't care for PP attitude but the convenience, particularly for international sales and transactions, cannot be beaten.
The speed and ease of PP is a reality. I feel that you should offer PP as a payment option and those who feel strongly about it will use another form of payment.
 
STR said:
I felt much the same way for years but what turned it around was a simple check into the terms of service agreement. What I read is this which is part 'h' and part 'i' in the acceptable use policy found on their website beginning-You may not use the PayPal service for activities that relate to sales of: (h) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (i) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law

Our normal dealings do not apply because what most of us sell is not a 'regulated' item under law.

What I read is that PayPal is no more "anti-gun" than they are "anti-smoking", or "anti-drinking" just because they also decline to permit transactions in tobacco or alcohol products which obviously are regulated items. Basically they don't do much different than most of the places we deal with for anything else. You can't blame them for protecting themselves legally here or for wanting to protect their members and thats basically why they have these limitations. I don't see it as reading they are anti anything so much as they are just legally covering their own behind. Reading the acceptable policy they also don't allow selling of third party info and other such things all relating to regulated items or things such as gambling but I don't see that as meaning they are anti gambling either. Chances are that many of their employees shoot actively, own and carry knives, gamble and drink and smoke.

Besides all this I've found pay pal to be invaluable to me for international transactions making it very convenient to not only be paid promptly but convert currency to US dollars or the other way around should I be the buyer.

STR
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Pretty much the way I understand it. I recently read that Paypal and Ebay are not anti gun but chose not to engage in the trade of guns and ammo. This for legal and liability reasons. Can't remember were I read this but their political support was pretty balanced, if not leaning a bit to to right. This was a big surprise to me.

I've used paypal for a long time, buying and selling and with no problems. Almost all of my overseas payments come through paypal. Probably 95% of my W2 steel sales also.

I say, use Paypal to help grow the knife community :)
 
I don't understand the "legal and liability reasons" argument - every gun store I've ever been in accepts Visa & Mastercard no problems. You can't tell me Paypal is seriously worried about getting sued because someone used them to buy a gun. It's a non starter for me.

Anyhow, by all means guys please let me know how you feel on this issue. It certainly will make it easier for the overseas guys to get memberships, but again, I don't want to lose a bunch of people either if they feel as I do (or stronger)
 
Their anti-weapons policy has nothing to do with liability- Is your bank to blame if you use a debit card to buy a regulated item? Obviously not, I do it all the time. They have established themselves as basically the only game in town for internet transactions, so they feel free to infringe on people as they see fit.

I have used them from time to time, but I try to avoid it. Your decision will not bend me out of shape, I just hope you don't get screwed by Paypal if you choose to use it.

Again with a troll being banned, they could drop a dime and say stuff about weapons and possibly screw you over, I have heard of people getting their account locked for selling a knife with a gunlike name.
 
My only concern has already been voiced, the disgruntled former member/troll/person who gets off by causing trouble lodging a complaint and getting your account frozen and money siezed, yes, siezed, until the dispute is resolved, if ever.

There is a rather infamous thread of a guy in Australia selling unprimed .308 brass that kept getting his auction locked, removed, etc because people "reported" he was selling dangerous goods.

I use pp out of lazyness. Sometimes it's just easier for me to click the pp option than it is to get up and go get my debit card.

And I'm extremely careful not to give too many details about what I'm buying or contributing to.
 
Spark said:
Anyhow, by all means guys please let me know how you feel on this issue. It certainly will make it easier for the overseas guys to get memberships, but again, I don't want to lose a bunch of people either if they feel as I do (or stronger)
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I like this site. Just let me know how to pay for membership renewal, and all is good.

I don't use paypal, many alternatives for me to use.

Matt
 
Some horror stories to read: http://www.paypalsucks.com/

The most troubling (to me) is:

4. If PayPal feels your actions are questionable, PayPal is the investigator, judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant. They also refuse to provide you with the details of their investigation and withhold documents they relied upon to make their decisions. Your only contact will be an email that says:
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They have zero accountability to you or anyone else.

Some alternatives to paypal:
http://www.merchantinc.com/
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal_alternatives.fsb/index.html
 
I try to avoid PP, there are several things I don't like. One was a bad customer service experience, another is their website doesn't seem user-friendly... for one thing "account balance" is always hunt and peck, or is that just me?

If they are anti-gun then a double pox on them. I don't use credit cards at all; debit cards I do at times but I try to avoid that as well since it raises the CDB for whoever I am buying from ... to the extent of going into the gas station in order to pay in cash instead of swiping card at the pump. We as a nation are too dam soft in every way. Tuff up!

Just say no Mr. Spark.
 
There must be an alternative to PP for overseas members. A buddy of mine managed to get me a gold membership as a gift and he's not a US citizen.

That said, it is a damnably convenient option when purchasing items from the Exchange and I do use it - a lot.

The alternatives all suck (believe me I know, because I can only send PayPal, not receive, so when I sell stuff, I have to use other options).

What about Google Checkout? Is that not a viable option to PayPal?

https://checkout.google.com/buyer/tour.html
 
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Spark, I believe you've made your point in regards to using PayPal....you don't really want to, but you will......politics really sucks, doesn't it??
 
I don't mind using onestopknifeshop for big stuff like membership. But if you ever wanted to setup a commission system for sales or something like that, PayPal is simple for most folks for small stuff.
 
Don't accept Paypal. If a member wants to use Paypal to pay for a membership let them generate the secure card with the Paypal Plug-In and pay that way. Everyone wins in the end. You don't compromise your ethics and Paypal users get to pay for there membership.
 
I'm with Ken - let the burden be on the people who insist on using PayPal, not the other way around.
 
I always renew with a CC,so it doesn't really matter to me.

It would probably be easier for international forumites though.
 
The good news is that you aren't selling physical merchandise like an eBay seller would be, so you can't get screwed by the "Significantly Not As Described" scam. It's the reason I'm unwilling to sell on eBay since they won't let you accept money orders anymore. If someone tries to screw you all you have to do is flip the switch and their membership is revoked. You didn't actually mail them anything you can't get back.

That said, I hate PayPal even though I use them all the time when I buy stuff on eBay. PP is fine for buyers, it's sellers that absorb so much of the risk.

You might consider it for overseas purchasers who don't have other options, but if I were you I wouldn't take it for US addresses. Just my opinion.
 
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