Peeve about GEC/Northfield/Tidioute

[sitflyer]

Another thought that comes to me RE: the strong aversion to stainless that pops up is; what about all of the high end "Custom" built knives with high end steels, it seems OK and accepted generally speaking, that these makers use these materials, and these knives are shown and admired by many folks around these parts, but mention GEC and 440C and some folks seem to get peeved at the very notion of it ?

 

[littleknife]

I too would like more GEC knives offered with stainless steel (440C at least).
There is a reason, stainless steel became so wide-spread, and 440C holds a very good edge.
Some people have much more corrosive perspiration than others, or the things they cut are more corrosive. Sometimes you just don’t have the time to properly wipe/wash the blade, to prevent rust. For me, preferring the stainless steel is not so much the desire to keep the knife pristine/shiny, but the advantage of low maintenance.

 

[STR]

Another thought that comes to me RE: the strong aversion to stainless that pops up is; what about all of the high end "Custom" built knives with high end steels, it seems OK and accepted generally speaking, that these makers use these materials, and these knives are shown and admired by many folks around these parts, but mention GEC and 440C and some folks seem to get peeved at the very notion of it ?

I certainly have them. I've used them. The diff is they don't seem to stay with me as long as the carbon blades. Something about the character of a good ole carbon blade I don't know. That old Sod Buster I have by KR Johnson looks so cool now compared to the ATS34 and 154CM that even these days when hand made look store bought, commercial. Few have the character and charm of the real hand worked from scratch made by hand using hand files type carbon knives and while its found in some stainless and one can admire the work of those using it that charm of the carbon steel nostaligia, the patina, all that character is not even there anymore. They are almost life less compared to the carbon which is born, has a life that is long but it withers away and returns to dust as if alive. Again tho, from the mind of a strange knife knut! It took me a lot of years and some $ to finally realize the above reality for me tho.

 

[sitflyer]

I certainly have them. I've used them. The diff is they don't seem to stay with me as long as the carbon blades. Something about the character of a good ole carbon blade I don't know. That old Sod Buster I have by KR Johnson looks so cool now compared to the ATS34 and 154CM that even these days when hand made look store bought, commercial. Few have the character and charm of the real hand worked from scratch made by hand using hand files type carbon knives and while its found in some stainless and one can admire the work of those using it that charm of the carbon steel nostaligia, the patina, all that character is not even there anymore. They are almost life less compared to the carbon which is born, has a life that is long but it withers away and returns to dust as if alive. Again tho, from the mind of a strange knife knut! It took me a lot of years and some $ to finally realize the above reality for me tho.

That was very well put, thank you sir! And I do have some old carbon steel knives that would definitely not be the same if the were stainless, so I do get that part of it...

 

[biglmbass]

Plenty of SS GEC remain on the shelves at many distributors. Lots say they want stainless, but few end up buying it so it seems. Then again, perhaps GEC hasn't offered the hot/now/wow pattern that sets the SS faction on red alert. One sure fire way of getting the SS you want from GEC is calling them to commission an SFO and writing a check.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I have to find the pic and repost using Tapatalk. It was an acorn shield though.

To each their own, but my Case Bose annuals and few customs seem full of life and exude charm with their ATS34, CPM154 and 154CM blades. I like my patinas, but would still like to see GEC offer higher end stainless. A 73 single blade trapper with D2 or 154CM steel would sound great to me.

 

[rma100]

Plenty of SS GEC remain on the shelves at many distributors. Lots say they want stainless, but few end up buying it so it seems. Then again, perhaps GEC hasn't offered the hot/now/wow pattern that sets the SS faction on red alert. One sure fire way of getting the SS you want from GEC is calling them to commission an SFO and writing a check.

:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[2Dead]

Can you tell me what shield was used on this particular knife please?

Not the exact one Dan is talking about but I believe commissioned by the same guy at the same time. He had GEC make a #735108 in Burnt Stag like mine below as well as 2 different bone colors (a red and a brown bone IIRC). As you can see, no Cyclops stamp.

 

[jc57]

Plenty of SS GEC remain on the shelves at many distributors. Lots say they want stainless, but few end up buying it so it seems. Then again, perhaps GEC hasn't offered the hot/now/wow pattern that sets the SS faction on red alert. One sure fire way of getting the SS you want from GEC is calling them to commission an SFO and writing a check.

Well herein lies the issue.

Of the patterns offered in 440c that are still available, the only one I especially cared for is the #48 dogleg trapper in jigged amber bone. So I bought one of those from Barry (Gunstock Jack) and have been quite happy with it.

Suppose I would have also loved to buy one of the new Abilenes, or Improved Trappers, or the very popular #15 patterns. Sorry, not offered in SS. There are also plenty of older 1095-bladed GEC knives on dealer shelves. If the combo of pattern / handle material / value for the money isn't there for enough buyers, knives don't sell, no matter what the blade steel is.

For a true gauge of interest in the steel versus the pattern, they'd need to release a run of a relatively popular pattern, in attractive/popular handle materials, in both 440C and 1095, at the same price points, and see which ones sold better.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

John, you are right. Case produces mainly SS blades, because they sell well, and GEC produces mainly 1095 blades, because they sell well. I don't know if GEC's operations are set up for higher end stainless, I'm hoping they still have the set up for 440C.

 

[2Dead]

Yes the Fixed-Blade Hunters all carry the Acorn Shield and 1095 Carbon Steel Blades. BUT, the Stainless Slip Joints all have the "Cyclops Steel" tang stamp. So far, I mean I think.

I've managed to hunt down some pics of GEC fixed blades with they Cyclops tang stamp but none are actually in stock. Going by these, I have to assume GEC has made some 440C fixed blades.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Not the exact one Dan is talking about but I believe commissioned by the same guy at the same time. He had GEC make a #735108 in Burnt Stag like mine below as well as 2 different bone colors (a red and a brown bone IIRC). As you can see, no Cyclops stamp.

Different handle material, same logo stamp on the blade. So they were 420HC? If they are 440C, I am going to literally shed a tear, and then try to get the one I traded back from the dealer.

 

[2Dead]

Different handle material, same logo stamp on the blade. So they were 420HC? If they are 440C, I am going to literally shed a tear, and then try to get the one I traded back from the dealer.

I'm pretty sure they're 420HC. When I got this one, the guy who sold it to me linked an older ebay listing where the original guy had sold a few of the bone models and they were listed as 420HC.

Btw, checking GEC's '08 list, it looks like there are 35 single blade #73s in 440C out there.
GREAT EASTERN CUTLERY
#735108
American Elk ........................35 pcs. serialized
Factory Test Production Run

 

[Peregrin]

No. In answer to your question. I personally don't want to see more stainless. I'm sick of stainless. I like having a knife in my pocket that gracefully ages with me as we partner together through life. Its nostaligic, it makes me feel warm, it reminds me of my grandmother and her old butcher knives and takes me back to working the old carbon steels as a kid where I grew up between two competing knife makers! Nope. I chose GEC for their carbon blades. Had they offered only stainless or mostly I'd probably have passed on by for the type of knives they build. In my mind tradition seems to dictate carbon blades but maybe I'm strange. I mean some of the guys posting thumb studs and clips even though they are used on traditonal knives like Case knives I own that have back springs, and they get classed as non traditional please don't show them, yet stainless slippies get shown all the time and in my mind they should be booted too if you are going to kick out a carbon blade CASE with a thumb stud, pocket clip and clip on it from the factory. But again, maybe I'm strange.

Some of the best Knifemakers on the planet post their traditional stainless steel slip joints here. These knives are the epitome of the art of knifemaking. They belong here as much as the carbon steel slip joints do.

Our definition of modern knives also includes modern knives made with carbon steel blades. What the blades are made of don't determine whether a knife is traditional or modern, at least not here. Thumb studs, pocket clips etc are where we draw the line between traditional and modern. We needed a line and we drew it. It might seem arbitrary, but it's been the rule in this forum since it was started.

 

[knarfeng]

Gary speaks my mind.

Traditional vs. modern on this forum has ALWAYS been about pattern, not materials of construction. That decision was made by the founding moderators of this forum and Gary and I have always agreed with it.

The use of stainless steel in cutlery goes back to the late 1920's. The use of synthetics for covers goes back even further. That brings those materials within the definition of "Traditional".

 

[STR]

Some of the best Knifemakers on the planet post their traditional stainless steel slip joints here. These knives are the epitome of the art of knifemaking. They belong here as much as the carbon steel slip joints do.

Our definition of modern knives also includes modern knives made with carbon steel blades. What the blades are made of don't determine whether a knife is traditional or modern, at least not here. Thumb studs, pocket clips etc are where we draw the line between traditional and modern. We needed a line and we drew it. It might seem arbitrary, but it's been the rule in this forum since it was started.

You'll note I've bought them also. Its not that I'm opposed. Just my opinion the line is maybe a bit too stiff and unyielding at times??. When Case makes a pattern with a thumb stud and clip and carbon blade it gets by just fine here. When a maker does and even all is the same except the makers has a nail nick they tell him he can't post it. I've seen them do that. It ain't right and no it was not me. Just sayin, the pattern was even more traditional than some you guys allowed thats all.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

While this place is very accepting, I have noticed that in regards to thumb studs and pocket clips, of which I can only remember one pattern from Case and that did not involve a clip, was that people here almost bristled to that pattern. It might have been accepted, but it seems that it was very reluctantly. I don't think that exclusions should be made for stainless knives. I really like to see old, carbon steel patterns with some great patina and character in junk shops. Like Christmas to me. But I don't think those should be the only knives showed here.

 

[Peregrin]

You'll note I've bought them also. Its not that I'm opposed. Just my opinion the line is maybe a bit too stiff and unyielding at times??. When Case makes a pattern with a thumb stud and clip and carbon blade it gets by just fine here. When a maker does and even all is the same except the makers has a nail nick they tell him he can't post it. I've seen them do that. It ain't right and no it was not me. Just sayin, the pattern was even more traditional than some you guys allowed thats all.

Case gets no preferential treatment from me. If it's got a pocket clip and I see it, there will be a comment that it doesn't belong here.

 

[knarfeng]

Am I alone in wishing they'd offer many more?

You are not alone. I prefer stainless blades.

Plenty of SS GEC remain on the shelves at many distributors. Lots say they want stainless, but few end up buying it so it seems. Then again, perhaps GEC hasn't offered the hot/now/wow pattern that sets the SS faction on red alert. One sure fire way of getting the SS you want from GEC is calling them to commission an SFO and writing a check.

GEC has only made a few patterns in stainless. Most of the patterns I have not liked. The ones I liked, I bought. I will not buy a pattern I do not like merely because it is stainless. If GEC gave me more choices in stainless, there would be a higher probability of my finding something I just had to have.

I don't honestly expect more stainless choices to happen. Not until they start having problems selling enough 1095 bladed knives to stay in business, which is highly unlikely.

 

[STR]

While this place is very accepting, I have noticed that in regards to thumb studs and pocket clips, of which I can only remember one pattern from Case and that did not involve a clip, was that people here almost bristled to that pattern. It might have been accepted, but it seems that it was very reluctantly. I don't think that exclusions should be made for stainless knives. I really like to see old, carbon steel patterns with some great patina and character in junk shops. Like Christmas to me. But I don't think those should be the only knives showed here.

Oh I bet they bristled. I guess at this point in time in what, almost 2014 we can start to look at the knives much like music had to look at the songs as rock is re-categorized into 'oldies'. Maybe a new category for the other traditional knives should be discussed and created to fill what is 'the new traditional'. Its not like the super mods of this forum or the mods of this forum are the owners of it paying for it like I do mine. This is our forum. If the forum as a whole sees it the same sure but perhaps tradition should include more than only what is allowed?? I don't feel the same and no one ever asked the rest of us. I bet many would like to see a lot of the old wood handled gents liner locks of yesteryears back. I would and they don't really have a place to show other than what general? New traditions begin all the time and old ones had to start somewhere. Just a thought but the point is some of us see some aspects of the rules here about as fantastically bizarre as you do my statement about stainless....