Perfect Sandbox Knife

sodak said:
Like Ankerson, I served over 25 years ago in the Army. We had no regs at all regarding knives, except that you were expected to provide your own. They are viewed as tools. I usually carried an Uncle Henry Schrade folder, basically a Buck 110 knockoff.
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Things were a lot different back then. :D :thumbup:
 
Mannlicher said:
Recently my nephew got back from Iraq (Army), and my best bud's son returned from Afghanistan (in the Marines).
While they were over there, I sent each of them a RAT RC-4. They used the blades hard for a year, and brought them back. Both blades were still in great shape, and both young lads just raved about the RAT performance.
They particularly liked the options they had with the sheath system to attach it to their belt or pack.
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Gotta love Rat Cutlery! :thumbup:
 
my brother has carried a CS SRK to that part of the world several times, both when he was a ground pounder right after sandbox 1 and afterwards as a DOD civilian.
that said, I doubt there's anything such as a "perfect" knife, as everyone's hands are different as is the way they think a knife should be used.
 
Many unit supply sections will have access to NSN's for all knids of edged weapons and tools that their units can request for issue, most of it Commercial Off-The-Shelf (COTS) items. I work at a mobilization site, and I've seen knives and multitools of every description issued to different units. The Alaska NG brigade that mob'ed through here got Ontario ASEK knives, one unit for Camillus Blaze folders presented during their Pass In Review ceremony before they left. Other units issue what their command cell sees as necessary for their mission, and some units issue no edged implements at all, leaving it up to the individual Soldier to buy whatever he wants. I think the Gerber 600 multi-plier is a Rapid Fielding Initiative (RFI) issue item now, but I can't say for certain.

Our unit issued Gerber 600's to most people, but a lot of us slipped through the cracks and never got shit. I ended up having to buy mine at the PX, and I still have it. Some guys were able to get issued the old style Aircrew Survival knives, but those were few and far between, and I never saw anyone wearing one in Iraq. Most guys in the unit bought Ka-Bars or Ontario Mark 2 combat knives and wore them on their trouser belts. I had a SOG Tsunami in a field made leg rig, and I later bought an Army marked Ka-Bar from the Marine Exchange on FOB Duke. I carried a Spyderco Endura II the whole tour, along with my Gerber 600, and never wanted for anything else. We got issued those M9 bayonet "systems," but they were all nearly unused, heavy and dull as hell. I threw mine in my D-box along with my promask and never used either of those items the whole year.

I bought a bunch of knives as gifts from the haji mart/bazaar on the FOB, including several CRKT knives that turned out to be pretty good blades.

If I ever go over again, I'll probably take the Ka-Bar, Gerber 600 and one of my Spyderco's or CRKT M21-14SFG's. Anything other than that is overkill, because most folks are not going to get in biker gang-style knife fights over there, anyway. The Ka-bar is good for opening up strapping tape, cutting up kindling and constructing shelter. The pommel makes a decent hammer if you're careful, and the knife is relatively inexpensive, so if you break it you won't have to cry over destroying a $1,000 heirloom.

I saw a bunch of guys over there buying those ridiculous Chinese-made monster knives, but those were mostly just for show. All the serious guys I ever ran into carried fairly serious knives, folders or fixed, in a 3.5-6 inch range that looked used but well taken-care of.
 
For all the guys saying things have changed since 25 years... they are right! As an infantryman in an infantry unit, I had problems. I was not allowed to carry (dagger logo CFO2) an MT OTF or a BM (model 30) balisong. The reasoning behind this was all PC BS. My platoon Sgt and LT said that (me) being an ambassador of the US, should not carry such a nasty weapon. I would have pointed to the M249 I was carrying but that would have earned me 50 push-ups! FRONT LEANING REST POSITION - GO!
 
Charlie Mike said:
For all the guys saying things have changed since 25 years... they are right! As an infantryman in an infantry unit, I had problems. I was not allowed to carry (dagger logo CFO2) an MT OTF or a BM (model 30) balisong. The reasoning behind this was all PC BS. My platoon Sgt and LT said that (me) being an ambassador of the US, should not carry such a nasty weapon. I would have pointed to the M249 I was carrying but that would have earned me 50 push-ups! FRONT LEANING REST POSITION - GO!
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it is sad that we are now dictated in such a way, in WW1 and 2 nobody gave a rat's ass... a platoon sergeant would have praised an 11B for carrying such a nasty weapon and instilling fear in their enemies... obviously we did something right because even the Soviet Union wouldn't get into a physical confrontation with us...
 
Charlie Mike said:
For all the guys saying things have changed since 25 years... they are right! As an infantryman in an infantry unit, I had problems. I was not allowed to carry (dagger logo CFO2) an MT OTF or a BM (model 30) balisong. The reasoning behind this was all PC BS. My platoon Sgt and LT said that (me) being an ambassador of the US, should not carry such a nasty weapon. I would have pointed to the M249 I was carrying but that would have earned me 50 push-ups! FRONT LEANING REST POSITION - GO!
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I carried a Machete more than a few times back 25 years ago too. :D

Yeah exactly what I had heard about today's Military. :(

Guess they can carry all those safe M16's, SAWS, M60's etc, but heaven forbid they carry a dangerous knife. :jerkit:
 
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Even worse bro...

During my tour (03-04), we weren't even issued grenades or 40mm HEDP. As an 11C, we weren't given any indirect fire missions and became 11B by default.
 
basic bayonets are too heavy to be used for most military applications. a definite study done in 50s or 60s found [ since the 1776 rev. ] actuial combat wounds in all wars since ;that bayonets inflicted only .001 of combat damage. most commanders figured the bayonet would probably at most give the guys a psycho boost.
 
Bayonet training is great to help inspire the "killer instinct" in grunts in training. Not much else. I was never issued a bayo, and neither was most of my platoon. I never missed having one. IMHO, fixed blades have more potential to hang up and become an impediment the longer they get. Best get a folder for your pocket, with wave, and a fixed blade for your IBA in a 4" blade. Try the Cold Steel Counter Tac for a decent "combat" knife and a Spyderco Endura Wave in plainedge for the pocket.
 
Dont bring a knife to a gun fight...Knives arent really for fighting, more for utility purposes. Also remember, that your in a country with lots of civilians walking around.. Having aggressive looking knives all over your body doesnt look good in their eyes. I dont think the government give a rats ass about the terrorists. Diplomacy is always important--winning the people is just as important as killing the enemy..just my opinion of course.
 
Charlie Mike said:
Bayonet training is great to help inspire the "killer instinct" in grunts in training. Not much else. I was never issued a bayo, and neither was most of my platoon. I never missed having one. IMHO, fixed blades have more potential to hang up and become an impediment the longer they get. Best get a folder for your pocket, with wave, and a fixed blade for your IBA in a 4" blade. Try the Cold Steel Counter Tac for a decent "combat" knife and a Spyderco Endura Wave in plainedge for the pocket.
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Here’s something I never understood about the bayonet philosophy since WW1. The order is, don’t sharpen the bayonets. You will make a better wound with a dull blade because the wound channel from a sharpened blade can close up easier. A sharpened bayonet can also get stuck in bone etc. etc etc.

Here are my thoughts. You are trying to kill the enemy, not “wound” him. A sharpened bayonet is going to cut internal organs as well as arteries thus causing more damage, more death. Highly doubtful that a guy is going to get bayoneted with a sharpened blade and have a greater chance of survival then with a dull blade.

Never understood why a soldier/marine would have to carry a heavy, dull bayonet as well as a useful knife for cutting. If bayonet use is next to o.oo% percent in any war, here’s a simple solution, make them razor sharp and now they are at least useful for cutting stuff.
It would seem though the Marine’s got it right with their Ontario bayonet, a 1095 blade that can take a razors edge. More of a useful cutter than a pole arm. A trooper could do a whole lot worse than having a heavy M9 bayonet with a shaving sharp edge.

Go back a few years for the “old” guys and look at the M7. This bayonet was also very unpopular during the Vietnam War because why? Poor design, poor steel, poor heat-treat? Nope. Same old issue wasn’t sharp enough to cut anything. Doesn’t make practical sense to have all that weight on your belt just for the sake of using as a mine probe or for mumbly-peg.

I have an M6 bayonet that sports a razor sharp edge making it quite useful. Yes, it can shave arm hair yet still fit on the end of an M-14 rifle. After much rambling my point is, if SOP says carry it, make it as multifunctional and practical as possible. I refuse to carry something called a “knife” that you can’t even cut with.

To be more accurate, modern nomenclature for the M9 should read:


M9 Rifle Mounted Tent Peg System – Multipurpose (1005-01-227-1739)


WARNING

The Rifle Mounted Tent Peg is very dull and should not be sharpened.
Sharpening of said M9 Rifle Mounted Tent Peg System can result in injury to the enemy and/or dishonorable discharge.

When utilizing the M9 Rifle Mounted Tent Peg System as a wire cutter, be sure
to keep hands/fingers away from the dull blade.

The M9 Rifle Mounted Tent Peg System is not insulated against electric shock.
Do not use it to cut paper or live wires.

Keep rounded tip of blade pointed away from body at all times.

Any attempt to use the M9 Rifle Mounted Tent Peg System other than carry will result in immediate disciplinary action and/or dishonorable discharge.

To avoid injury while tightening tang, clamp dulled blade between your legs.

Dry cleaning solvent (A-A-711) is flammable and should not be used near an
open flame or in a smoking area. Use only in well-ventilated areas. This
solvent evaporates quickly and has a drying effect on the skin. When used
without gloves, it may irritate, inflame or cause cracks in the skin.

When using solid film lubricant, be sure area is well ventilated.
To avoid injury to your eyes, be careful when removing and installing
spring-loaded parts.

In the event of nuclear, biological or chemical (NBC) contamination, remove
the dulling stone of the M9 Rifle Mounted Tent Peg System and discard prior
to implementing decontamination procedures. Removal at any other time
(except for replacement) is not authorized.

To increase the individual soldiers load and discomfort, the scabbard should be securely tied down to the leg when parachute jumping.
 
D R E said:
Here are my thoughts. You are trying to kill the enemy, not “wound” him. A sharpened bayonet is going to cut internal organs as well as arteries thus causing more damage, more death. Highly doubtful that a guy is going to get bayoneted with a sharpened blade and have a greater chance of survival then with a dull blade.
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I was trained to shoot for center mass. If I was given the chance for a headshot, I would still shoot for center mass. When you wound a combatant, it takes one if not two men out of the equation as they try to keep homeboy alive.
 
Thats why modern bayonet training seems so archaic. Either make the thing a useful and practical tool or "instill the fighting spirit" with better pay and shorter deployments :)
 
As I have said for years....

*sigh*

If you hear the order to "fix bayonets"... you're pretty much phucked. Your "combat knife" will kill many MRE's but that's about it. Don't pry with a dagger. That's what your E-Tool is for.


This was pretty much it, showing off my D/A Socom and getting my buddy to become a Microholic.
l_bd2429f3d8fa4dc486aef1bd9d93f7b1.jpg
 
If you look at what the airborne troops jumped into Normandy with, you see them carrying several knives at once. A machete, the switchblade shroudcutter, an M3 or M1917 or M1918 trench knife, a Garand bayonet, and sometimes the issue pocket knife. Same with the SF guys in Vietnam. Obviously the guys had to hump a lot of shit with them, but they felt the need to bring a couple of knives along too.

Question? If we move today's conflict out of the desert and put it into the savannahs of Africa, or the permafrost area of the Arctic Circle, would the knife choices change? If so, how?
 
My knife choices wouldn't change at all, regardless of the combat theater. I always have a fixed blade, a folder and a multi-tool on my rig wherever I go in the field.

If I was to go to the deep woods for a while, I'd probably pack a short machete or a tomahawk, depending.
 
Charlie Mike said:
As I have said for years....

*sigh*

If you hear the order to "fix bayonets"... you're pretty much phucked. Your "combat knife" will kill many MRE's but that's about it. Don't pry with a dagger. That's what your E-Tool is for.]

IMG_0697.jpg


Here are my "MRE Assault Knives" (MAK's). I figure if I break one I have 8 in reserve :thumbup:
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Charlie Mike said:
I was trained to shoot for center mass. If I was given the chance for a headshot, I would still shoot for center mass. When you wound a combatant, it takes one if not two men out of the equation as they try to keep homeboy alive.
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Yeah but if you kill them it will save you one shot when his buddies come to check on him. So instead of 3 shots you only need two. ;)

We were trained to kill period when I was in...... If you shot them and they didn't die it might as well have been a miss.

I would take a head shot if it was a good one, if not then right through the heart. ;)

I carried a K-Bar and a Gerber Mark 1 just in case. :)
 
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