Performance?: M4 vs Cruwear Military

coiledwire

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The Gayle Bradley has a lot of positive reviews for the cutting performance of the hollow grind M4 steel. Now that the new Military Cruwear has started to get in people's hands, which steel and grind performs better?

I know "better" is subjective, but let's start a discussion comparing these.

Edit: As mentioned by several members, too many variables comparing different steels on different platforms. So let's keep the comparison on the military only; title changed.
 
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Hard to compare at this point, still too early in the Military Cruwear release. The real teste will come in the following months. People really need to put things rougha range of daily tasks to give it a fair shake. Rather than cutting cardboard, rope, and leather in one video. I'm looking forward to trying to buy one, still haven't seen them in stock anywhere and it's starting to bother me. I'm not about to pay $100 over retail for one.
 

coiledwire

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I completely agree it's a bit early for comparison. But I'm sure someone will get a cruwear and can't help but to cut something with it. :D
 
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Hard to compare at this point, still too early in the Military Cruwear release. The real teste will come in the following months. People really need to put things rougha range of daily tasks to give it a fair shake. Rather than cutting cardboard, rope, and leather in one video. I'm looking forward to trying to buy one, still haven't seen them in stock anywhere and it's starting to bother me. I'm not about to pay $100 over retail for one.

Agreed on both counts! I'm sure there will be several put through the paces by some members once they get out in greater quantity. Like some other releases I suspect there will be a high demand while it sounds like only a few are out, then there should be more available at regular pricing for a bit. At least that is what I'm hoping!
 

gunfixrjoe

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Hard to compare at this point, still too early in the Military Cruwear release. The real teste will come in the following months. People really need to put things rougha range of daily tasks to give it a fair shake. Rather than cutting cardboard, rope, and leather in one video. I'm looking forward to trying to buy one, still haven't seen them in stock anywhere and it's starting to bother me. I'm not about to pay $100 over retail for one.

Agreed
 

jbmonkey

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Hard to compare at this point, still too early in the Military Cruwear release. The real teste will come in the following months. People really need to put things rougha range of daily tasks to give it a fair shake. Rather than cutting cardboard, rope, and leather in one video. I'm looking forward to trying to buy one, still haven't seen them in stock anywhere and it's starting to bother me. I'm not about to pay $100 over retail for one.

yep...couldnt agree more. I really like cruwear and the military design....but not enough to pay flipped prices. Looks like ill lose out on getting one. Thats the way it goes though....
 
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let's not forget that there is a cpm m4 military for a fairer test between steels.

last I checked composition wise, cpm m4 should stand well ahead in edge retention. but it's been awhile so I could be way off. and that's not taking into account heat treat, etc...
 

The Mastiff

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The charts from the manufacturers list CPM M4 having greater abrasive wear than CPM Cruwear. I agree that the individual knives need to be tested to see what does what. The CPM Cruwear performs and sharpens differently than the ingot Cruwear mules.

Both steels perform different depending on the heat treat, temper, final hardness, grind and angle and finish. I sure don't feel comfortable saying X works better than Y. Too many variables.
 
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The charts from the manufacturers list CPM M4 having greater abrasive wear than CPM Cruwear. I agree that the individual knives need to be tested to see what does what. The CPM Cruwear performs and sharpens differently than the ingot Cruwear mules.

Both steels perform different depending on the heat treat, temper, final hardness, grind and angle and finish. I sure don't feel comfortable saying X works better than Y. Too many variables.


Hi Mastiff - I would guess there are many that would put a lot of value in what your estimation would be. For instance, if you were a knife maker, what attributes about Cruwear would make you choose this over M4 (assuming it has nothing to do with the actual making of the knife but rather with its use)?

Might as well also ask - if Cruwear is along the lines of 3V, how does it's reputation of toughness hold against M4?
 

shunsui

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Here's some Charpy C Notch Impact Test results from Crucible datasheets. These are marketing documents so take it with a grain of salt, but at least they give the comparisons at the same hardness, 62 HRC.

CPM-3v 62 hrc 40 ft-lbs

CPM-Cruwear 62 hrc 35 ft-lbs

CPM-M4 62 hrc 32 ft-lbs

Cruwear 62 hrc 30 ft-lbs

M2 62 hrc 20 ft-lbs
 

The Mastiff

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Shunsui pretty well answered it with the numbers. So, I'd go with CPM M4 for greatest wear resistance heat treated accordingly. For toughness, edge stability and lateral strength I'd go with the lower carbide fraction CPM Cruwear. Naturally variables can turn the results upside down.

CPM M4 is itself a very tough steel. Certainly no slouch. Cruwear is pretty wear resistant. It's above D2 levels so it's not bad. I suppose I'd be looking at the maker and the knife more than the steels because they both do things pretty well with some overlap in the right conditions.
 
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Thx Shunsui and Mastiff. I had posted after the latest Mule and forum native that I didn't know how to feel as it felt like the pinnacle had been reached. Of course with some encouragement here I learned new directions and perspectives.
 
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I am currently using my Cruwear quite a bit. I am a HUGE M4 fan. I have about 5 knives in it. The Cruwear Millie is really doing well. Certainly on par with my M4. Since I have a M4 and a Cruwear Millie, maybe a little test is in order. Soooo many variables would be eliminated doing a head to head. Both FFG, both same length, same everything but the steel. Anyone else interested??
 

coiledwire

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Totally interested! It was my intention of the thread to compare the 2 steels. I figured more people had access to a GB for comparison which is why I named it in the title, but a military M4 would be perfect. I'll update the title to reflect just a comparison of steels, not platform.

I look forward to your testing. :)
 
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I will go get some rope tomorrow. I will do the test comparing when each will cleanly cut newsprint. I even have the Millie in S90V. Although Ankerson has covered that one well, and I would expect it would win cleanly. This should be fun. A head to head on the two hot tool steels. With so many variables eliminated, this test should really tell us who is the winner between these two. I'm kinda excited!
 

coiledwire

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I'm pretty sure you'll sharpen both the same. What angle and finishing grit are you planning to use?
 
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I will use my Spyderco Sharpmaker to the Ultra fine white stones then I will strop both evenly with my strop and the green compound. This is my normal sharpening regimen. This usually leaves them hair popping sharp. Then I will make a set number of cuts on the rope. I will test newsprint every say 20 cuts. We will then have a comparison to within twenty cuts as to which one out cuts the other. I have no idea how many cuts it will take to get there. I want to have enough rope to complete the test.
 

91bravo

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I've never had experience with M4, but I've been stropping on this cruwear blade and it's getting wicked sharp!
 
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