Performance of Mission's Ti ?

Cliff Stamp · May 10, 2001

Everynow and again I get interested in one of the Ti blades from Mission, however it seems that everytime I get ready to seriously consider getting one I read something that really turns me off. The last thing was :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Titanium is a lot better than any steel under any conditions.</font>

from :

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubb/Forum59/HTML/000058.html

Now the good impact toughness and ductility of Ti are attractive, as well is the wear resistance provided by the oxide coating that develops. And of course the 100% corrosion resistance in normal conditions is a little attractive. However statements like the above are so extreme that it really brings down my confidence in the blades.

Does anyone use one of Missions Ti blades on a regular basis? Does the performance of the knife even come close to the claims made by the Mission reps?

How durable is the edge as compared to a good steel blade in regards to hard contacts and forceful twisting. Does it show the high resistance to abrasion in gritty materials? Does the edge roll quickly because of the low RC in strong push cuts? How strong is the tip and main body of the blade - can it be easily bent as compared to a similar sized steel blade? Will it take a fine edge? Does the edge retain any aggression at a high polish?

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 05-10-2001).]

muzzleup · May 10, 2001

Cliff, I can't answere ALL of your questions, however, I do have an MPK and about all I can say is "I like it". It never FEELS SHARP except right after sharpening with my ez-lap M. but then the oxidizing starts and looses its grabby sharp feel. It cuts for a hell of a long time on things like cardboard and chops up my bamboo with ease also. Its not a "chopper" due to its light weight.
Titanium (beta)is much TOUGHER then steel for a given weight. It will not become brittle in extrem cold like steel will.
I have done some digging with it and it seems to glide into the dirt and shows no sighs of nicking on the edge. I have stuck the point into logs and twisted it out as well as from side to side and have not been able to deform the tip or break it.
I try not to be too rough on this one since it is one of the few sterile ones still in existance.
I have a friend who has one of the orange handled/sheathed diving models with the high polish and he likes it extremly well also.
Titanium is kind of funny to cut with since it does not feel very sharp but just keeps cutting anyway(low coefficient of friction I think).
Ahh, hell, Cliff go ahead and get one. I think you will like it.

------------------
Ron,
Bremerton, Washington

Cobalt · May 13, 2001

Cliff, as you know I had a couple of these and sold both. One was prestine and the other was beaten up. They can definitelly take a pounding, but are just way to light to be effective at chopping. It will take you considerably longer to chop through anything with it than almost any decent steel knife. The edge is really hard to get scary sharp (for me anyway). The edge indents but never did chip. I would compare it's edge retention with a 440A blade at about 55-56 Rc. Not the greatest but bearable. I only pried with it once and it bent fairly easily in my opinion but went back to true. It did not feel as strong as steel knives of the same dimensions, but maybe this was my impression more than reality.

I got rid of them because they were just way to light for me. I think I would rather have something made out of Stellite or Talonite than Ti.

I'm sure Will still has his and he can give you his impressions.

Will Kwan · May 14, 2001

Cliff,

I like the MPK because of its lightweight and corrosion resistance. It is carried mostly when I am hunting or when there is a very slim chance of chopping. I have used my MPK on a regular basis, but only in the kitchen. I have only done some light chopping.

I have used the MPK for partially frozen cutting chicken and beef. The MPK maintains a useful cutting edge about 20% better than the MD ATAK2. The MPK will do around 10 LB of beef or 20 of LB chicken before I get fed up and sharpen it or use another knife. The VG 10 Blue Whale kitchen knife does about as well as the MPK, but I think this is due more to blade geometry. The cutting boards that I use seem to be abrasive on knives. This is what prompted me to ask the abrasion test question. The MPK will loose its razor sharp much faster than the ATAK2 when slicing meats. I suspect this is due the edge on the MPK rolling over much faster than the ATAK2.

Sharpened to the same angle Beta Ti will roll much easier than steel. It will roll with hard push cuts into relatively soft material such as spruce. With regard to slicing, a working edge is maintained by Ti longer than a steel knife.

The most stressful thing it has done so far is stabbing and prying frozen food apart, which it does with no difficulties. It did not take much force to either pop the pieces of food loose or pop the tip out. I have chopped and hammered the MPK into K2 (about ¼-1/2) particleboard and popped it out without any damage. This chipped the MD but has not bother any of the other steel knives I tried this with. The particleboard is probably not very tough on the knife. I stuck the edge against the soft iron block you had sent me and the edge was not damaged. I just used the weight of the knife and the indentation in the block was quite a bit less than any other knife I have tried this with.

The MPK is not well suited to chopping. It is too light and the edge will roll quickly. I have not seen it chip due to chopping or impacting the soft iron block that you had sent me. A useful and sometimes hair scraping edge can be restored on the MPK with a Razor Edge pocket steel after chopping. The ATAK2 remains sharp for a lot longer than the MPK and along with its weight will out chop the MPK by a considerable margin.

I also had an MPF for a short period of time till it was stolen. I compared the sharpness of the MPF after I sharpened it to a new Sierra from Greg Lightfoot, new Grohnman #3 and #2 model from Walter Brend. I had finished the MPF with the 1000-grit ceramic stone from the Lansky sharpening kit. Nobody could see a sharpness difference between any difference between the knives. It can be made as sharp as any steel knife. After sitting around for 2 weeks without use the MPF appeared to be just as sharp and it did shave hair as well.

The MPF looses its razor sharp edge faster than my ATS-34 steel pocketknives. A useful edge can be maintained for quite a while with the aid of a pocket steel. It will cut as well as my AFCK or RETAK Pioneer tanto as long they are at the level of sharpness. I have cut up rubber tubing, industrial flexible ducting, and carpet with the knives. I had to steel the MPF more often to maintain its level of performance. The MPF did not have any performance advantage over the AFCK or RETAK when I was cutting carpet. Perhaps I cut too much before cutting carpet before comparing the knives or the backing on the carpet rolled the edge of the MPF.

I think John Moore has published much of the material data on Beta Ti. The Charpy numbers are higher than most steel (O-1, 1095, and ATS 34) at 50 Rc, but not as high as CPM 3V. The tensile strength and yield strength was comparable to steel. It would be best to ask him to clarify since my memory is not so good.

I was under the impression that John Moore was referring to the dirt pushing application when he made that statement.

Murry at Proedge is a diver and has probably used his MPK to pry with. He might be able to give you a better idea of what to expect in that regard.

Will

ProEdge · May 15, 2001

Cliff..

I have used my MPK12 Ti for prying on many underwater vehicle recoveries..

I have pryed off licence plates, pryed open and broke side door windows, dug in heavy silt and rock to gain access to undercarriage for tow hook ups and the MPK Ti has performed good and strong..

Absolutely no maintenance except a fresh water rinse..
The waters I dive in are highly contaminated and has not affected the MPK.. ( I wear a Kirby Morgan Superlite 27B Helmet and Viking Pro Dry Suit)

For cutting the MPK Ti perfroms alright..
After I sharpen it down to a 4000 grit on my Edge-Pro the blade goes from Razor Sharp, to Sharp, as the blade heals itself with oxidation..

The MPK stills cuts good, but not as crisp and effortless as my Fallkniven A1..

The Serrations on the MPK have no problem on all the lines and ropes i have sliced and I would recommend Mission serrations on any of their Ti knives..

I have dug in snow and ice with the MPK with no damage in -20degree weather..

It is a specialty knife forsure..

I like how light it is..
I have an IWB Concealex Sheath from OS/T and it is very comfortable for daily carry..

[This message has been edited by ProEdge (edited 05-15-2001).]

Will Kwan · May 15, 2001

Normally for meat slicing the chicken or beef is cut into pieces 1/8"x1.5"x1". Thats a lot of stir fry.

I tried the MPK on the iron block with harder blows. The edge did indeed dent but did not chip. Denting appears to be minor and could be steeled out. The dents were not 4x magnification but could be seen with a 60X magnifier.

Will

Cliff Stamp · May 22, 2001

Thanks for the details, besides the corrosion resistance, is there any other performance apsect that would make you pick the Ti Mission blade over the A2 one?

-Cliff

not2sharp · May 22, 2001

The low weight is sometimes an advantage. Heavy is not always better, and Ti seems to weight about half as much as A2.