Performance Question

I was thinking (they may be the start of my problems) and got to wondering. Mr. Bos does the heat treating for Strider right? Mr. Bos also does the heat treating for Buck right? And Hitachi Metals are the only people that make ATS-34 period I think so there's not really different grades of the steel. So what is the performance difference between a Strider knife and say a Buck Nighthawk? Same heat treat, same steel. Of course the Striders are 1/16 thicker but that would only ad marginal strength mainly in the lateral aspect. And bucks in my experience have always had good bevels and edges. How are the striders made different to where they out perform. Are there any test results I could read. Just trying to educate myself.

 

[surfing ronin]

Ryu,

I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that Paul Bos only OVERSEES the heat treating on the Buck knives. He actually does them on the Striders.

 

[Eskrimador1]

Deleted......

 

Yeah I know the folders are BG-42. I'm talking about the ATS-34 knives. And I doubt even though Bos only oversees the heat treating I doubt he would let the Buck products get a second rate job. So lets assume for a second the heat treat is the same. I don't want you guys to get upset here either. I know some guys get down right mad when someone compares their favorite knives to seemingly lesser products. But these are good questions and I would like to hear the answers just for my knowledge. I've always wondered how a maker can take the same steel and same available techniques and produce a superior knife.

 

[jefroman]

Let's say you have a Buck knife, and a Strider knife, both hardened to 59-61 Rc. Just because they have the same rockwell hardness, doesn't mean they were heat treated using the same process. Strider Knives have been tempered using a proprietary tempering process.

Jeff

 

[A. Hansen]

Of course the Striders are 1/16 thicker but that would only ad marginal strength mainly in the lateral aspect.

I agree that a thicker blade will be stronger in cutting only marginally, however, in prying a 1/4" blade will deflect less than half as much as a 3/16" blade-everything else being equal.

 

[Dark Nemesis]

Ryu:

These are some good questions. You've brought some good information to the table referencing the heat treatment and source of steel. I'd also like to see some test comparison results, and such information. Maybe some words from Strider about the "proprietary" heat treatment only used by Strider Knives?, some of that information would be informative and interesting.

I'm not a hardcore Strider person by any stretch, owning only one blade (AR), but still curious just like you.

 

Not sure I'd go prying with ATS-34. It seems to be the kinda steel that breaks before it bends too far. I'm not making a joke here but ATS-34 is like 30 cents a pound or something. So the total ammount of steel in an average knife can't be more than a dollar. I wonder how much Mr. Bos charges per blade to heat treat? Now I am no expert on steels by any means. But I have seen ATS-34 break where say A-2 or D-2 would not have. And once again I am talking about overall performance, prying is only a small part of what you might use a knife for. I mean if you are having to pry stuff with your knife every day or even once a week you don't need to carry a knife you need to carry a pry bar. Seems you would get more use out of it than a knife.

 

[Rob Simonich]

I have never seen ATS for 30 cents a pound! If I could find it for 30 cents I would buy a bunch of it!

 

[jefroman]

Since it is proprietary, they probably won't talk about it.

Jeff

 

[maximo]

Originally posted by jefroman
Since it is proprietary, I'm they probably won't talk about it.

Jeff

So Paul Bos uses one heat treat process for Strider and another (inferior) heat treat process for Buck ? Does that make sense to you Jefroman because it doesn't to me. I would think being the pro that he is that he would want to use the best process and do the best job all the time.

Also, I recently saw a post from Paul Bos on the Buck forum stating that he is a one man shop so the earlier comment by Surfing Ronin regarding how Bos oversees people doing the heat treat process at Buck can't be accurate either.

I wonder if anyone ever posted this question on the Buck forum? It would be interesting to know their perspective.

 

[panzer075]

Hey why don't you email me offline, I would like to tell you about some of the abusive things I have done to my ATS-34 Striders in the Line of Duty. Believe me they are not weak by any means. They held up very well to all kinds of prying and chopping abuse.
Chris

 

[jefroman]

Paul personally heat treats custom/handmade knives. He oversees Buck knives heat treating.

Buck knives are heat treated differently than Striders. Trust me. ask Mr. Strider if you don't believe me.

Jeff

 

[Dark Nemesis]

Jefroman, I think they can tell us about it, if the process is has a legal patent, but then again I'm not a lawyer

I think my Strider AR is the first knife that I've owned with Paul Bos heat treatment (pretty sure). Even if Mr. Bos only over sees the treatment on production knives such as the Bucks I tend to agree with maximo that he would want it to be as of superior quality as the ones he does by hand.

As panzer075 pointed out, his knife has taken a beating and is certainly not weak. With that being said about the Buck Strider, is it safe to say that the Buck Striders will most certainly stand side by side and perform every bit as well as an AR?

If not, what are some of the differences, such as the heat treatment and steel, as Ryu was inquiring?

Now if I Bladeforums will be kind enough to send me email alerts when people reply to this, lol

 

[surfing ronin]

Originally posted by maximo


So Paul Bos uses one heat treat process for Strider and another (inferior) heat treat process for Buck ? Does that make sense to you Jefroman because it doesn't to me. I would think being the pro that he is that he would want to use the best process and do the best job all the time.

Also, I recently saw a post from Paul Bos on the Buck forum stating that he is a one man shop so the earlier comment by Surfing Ronin regarding how Bos oversees people doing the heat treat process at Buck can't be accurate either.

I wonder if anyone ever posted this question on the Buck forum? It would be interesting to know their perspective.

Maximo,

Check out Mr. Paul Bos' response to this question,

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127162&highlight=heat+treat

 

[maximo]

Surfin Ronin and everyone else -

Thats my point!! I read your post regarding Paul Bos saying that he "monitors" the heat treat process for Buck; well look at the post that I have re-printed here in its entirety from the Buck forum where Paul actually states that he is a "one-man operation"!. So who exactly do you think he monitors Ronin, except for himself ?

To answer Ryu's original question there is no difference between the materials or heat treat process used between Buck's Striders and Strider's Customs. ATS34 is ATS34. Paul Bos heat treat is Paul Bos heat treat. Just to be sure I just got off the phone with Mr. Paul Bos (got his number out of the back of Knives '89 under Heat Treaters) and he confirmed it was the same heat treat process for both Buck and Strider knives.

From my perspective, I will continue to collect Strider customs, but use Buck Striders due to the superior price/performance ability of those knives.

Ken


wire edge
Basic Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 235
Paul Bos Heat Treat
I was thinking last night about Paul Bos and Strider. Having recently received a Buck Strider Tanto and TKa it got me wondering. So, for all of us that aren't enlightened to the subject:

1. What is the Bos heat treat procedure? Is it the same for BG-42 and ATS-34?

2. How big of an operation is the facility (does he have a small team that he oversees)?

3. Maybe silly, but how do you pronounce his last name? Is it "Boss" or is it "Bose"?

Thanks all.


__________________



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-12-2001 02:46 PM


Paul Bos
Basic Member

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: EL Cajon, Calif., U.S.A.
Posts: 87
The procedure is the same for ATS-34 and BG-42. I am a one man opperation. The Buck / Striders I set up the procedure, And over see the heat treat procedure, and do the final R/C test. The correct pronouceation is like BOSS, I do have relitives that spell there name BOSE. Hope this answers your questions. Paul


__________________
Paul R. Bos

 

[D. Rochkes]

Ryu,
Would you please let the rest of us in on your source to buy ATS-34 @ $.30 per pound? Rob and I are first in line to scarf up a couple of truckloads at that price. If my math is correct, that would be about $0.05 on the dollar for what the rest of us pay for it.

Speaking of math, geometry is the key to how a knife performs when you compare it to another knife made of the same steel with the same heat treatment. Geometry of the overall shape, geometry of the initial grind, geometry of the final grind....... geometry, geometry, geometry......

Dennis

 

I don't know that it is $.30 cents a pound but it is not the most expensive steel in the world. That is not to say that it is crap and that any knife made from it is bad. So any of you makers in here who use it... zip up your pants the pissing contest hasn't begun yet. And harping on my misinformed statement about the cost of ATS-34 is only a bad attempt at changing the subject, so apparently this topic makes someone uncomfortable. I'm just askin what makes a Strider such a better performer than a Buck. We now know it's not the steel, it's not the heat treat, and I can't believe it's all in the grind.

D.Rochkes So now that we know that it's the same steel, same treatmeant, you figure it is that Buck, after being in business for eons apparently doesn't know how to produce proper blade geometry? No offense but Buck has been making knives longer than ALL of us have been alive (the first Buck knife was made in 1902). I've always been told what makes a good knife producer is practice practice practice.

Now I apologize if this topic starts some kinda childish argument. But geeze guys c'mon. Some of you seem offended that a Strider could even be compared to a buck. Take your pills and chill out.

 

[Rob Simonich]

So any of you makers in here who use it... zip up your pants the pissing contest hasn't begun yet. And harping on my misinformed statement about the cost of ATS-34 is only a bad attempt at changing the subject, so apparently this topic makes someone uncomfortable.

I wasnt harping at all. I dont use ATS-34 anymore, but I would at 30 cents a pound! As for the rest of your statement, I dont think you have a clue! ATS IS a good steel if heat treated correctly. My earlier post had nothing to do with Strider or Buck knives. Thats all i will say, I dont play with amertures

 

[surfing ronin]

Originally posted by maximo
Surfin Ronin and everyone else -

Thats my point!! I read your post regarding Paul Bos saying that he "monitors" the heat treat process for Buck; well look at the post that I have re-printed here in its entirety from the Buck forum where Paul actually states that he is a "one-man operation"!. So who exactly do you think he monitors Ronin, except for himself ?

Maximo,

Man, you are getting way too excited over nothing. If you interpretation of "monitoring" is over seeing himself, then that is cool. You spoke to Mr. Bos, so I am sure you know exactly what he means by this.

Have a Guinness and cheers!