Peter's HT

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I wanted to post some of the conversation I just had with Brad at Peter's. It will help many with questions about HT and sending it out.

Brad has done HT since he left the farm ( literally) at age 19. He knows steel, but what is more important, he knows KNIFE steel. 52100 makes great knives, and it makes great bearings. The HT for a bearing is not the HT for a knife...and he knows that. What is probably even more important is that he loves his work. He is happy to show up every day, and enjoys hardening and tempering knives.

He checks every knife before HT, does them with individual attention, gives almost every blade he processes cryo treatment, tempers them, straightens as needed, and tests the hardness. Most all blade get hardness tested individually, but if a batch is done together and all are the same he may test every other one. Any variance and he test them all. If needed, he re-does the HT.

He has the 52100 HT down pat for Aldo's 98% spheroidized 52100.

Brad understands carbides, solution temperatures, and how they recombine in cooling. He stated that if he could impress one idea on blade makers for their personal HT regimes, it would be to do a full set of cycles on EVERY blade you HT. Starting at 1650F with a long enough soak will assure that the austenite gets everything into proper solution. Decreasing cycles set the grain and distribution, and a full austenitization soak before the final quench sets it permanently. Finally, cryo helps nearly all blades.

If you have a question, just call and he will be friendly and helpful. If there seems to be a problem, he will help figure the problem out.

This is all a good part of why it is often much better to sent blades to Peter's than to do them yourself.

 

[Hawk45]

They are my go to.. great service!

 

[jdm61]

I send anything that needs to get hotter than say 1550F or so to Brad. I have had great results with Peters both with CPM 3V and AEB-L. Also, if two batches can be austenized together at the same temp like those two steels can, they count as batch one for purposes of minimum order even though he has to temper them separately. All of my blades have come back straight and with a visible Rockwell tester mark in an inconspicuous spot. Brad is a good guy. Like Stacy said, there are certain steels like 52100 and D2 where you are better served for making knives if you use a slightly different HT regimen than if you were making machine tools or bearings and Brad has kept up with all of that info. You are highly unlikely to get a pice of 1095 back from him that has been given a "proprietary heat treatment" that results in a blade that is only like 56Rc.

 

[james terrio]

I'll second all of the above! If you're thinking of using a new (to you) steel, ask Brad what he thinks of it for your application before you even start grinding or forging... there's a pretty good chance he knows stuff about it that most makers wouldn't even think to ask.

Brad is also a knife user... he competed in the BladeSports World Championships again this year. Peter's HT is a big sponsor of the organization. What does this mean? It means that they aren't just a huge shop that does a few knife blades once in a while... they're really into knives.

I think most people would be surprised how many of the biggest names in both handmade and production blades rely on Brad and the Cutlery Division crew at Peters for all their blades... there's a very good reason for that

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

^ this

Peter's does a real good job on the stuff we send to them. I think they're the best in the industry.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I'll chime in with some praise for Peters. Brad really knows his stuff, and on the rare occasion he makes a mistake, he's always really good about providing good customer service too.

 

[David Stifle]

I agree with what's been said, but beware of sending multiple knives of different steels which have different Ht regimes, it can get expensive quick.

 

[Chris Larrikin]

I am in the process of organizing to have some custom knives made and the maker uses Peters. Given the distance involved this information is absolutely invaluable and really sets my mind at ease about a critical part of the process. Thanks guys.

 

[TLR]

I decided early on that as an aspiring maker my time is better spent right now in focusing on design and execution of that design then on heat treat. I've used Peters several times so far and been very happy with them. I really appreciate that they are willing to work with makers such as myself that are sending in small batches. Also I can attest to Brad's customer service. I have traded emails with him a few times with questions and his answers have been both kind and thorough.

 

[Tom Lewis]

Thanks, Stacy, I have spent the last several days working up a heat treat process for 52100 steel, and think I have the heat treating process solved. But, heat treating through all the steps is time consuming. I am thinking I can be more productive by sending the blades off and spending my time on other aspects of knifemaking.

 

[Robert Erickson]

I agree with what's been said, but beware of sending multiple knives of different steels which have different Ht regimes, it can get expensive quick.

Just call Brad and he can tell you what steel would be included on the same ticket. I sent a batch recently with some D2 and some AEB-L and they were not billed as different material even though they require different regimen. I believe the general cut off is stainless vs oil hardening. The one stainless that he mentioned to me that would be "odd man out" is 20CV.

 

[Horsewright]

Just got a big box back yesterday from Brad, could not recommend Peter's highly enough.

 

[samuraistuart]

Brad was AMAZING with me on the phone the other day. We got to talking about the variables in heat treating the higher alloy steels. I had mentioned the tests that Nathan had done on 3V....the idea of not using the secondary hardness tempers on these steels. Using a faster quenchant (oil vs air or plates), no snap temper directly into cryo, then using the lower tempering temps. What really impressed me was his attitude. I fully expected him to say something like, "well I know what gets the results I am after so I will stick with that." NOPE. He said that he was MORE than willing to try these things out...that he was constantly learning and trying to improve.

Heck of a guy....great company to do business with. The fact that he thinks we should be cycling those carbon steels tells me he is on target!!! Side note...I hope they don't mind me saying this...concerning the different batch of steel....I had sent CPM-M4 and AEB-L. They didn't charge me for different steels.

 

[David Stifle]

Just call Brad and he can tell you what steel would be included on the same ticket. I sent a batch recently with some D2 and some AEB-L and they were not billed as different material even though they require different regimen. I believe the general cut off is stainless vs oil hardening. The one stainless that he mentioned to me that would be "odd man out" is 20CV.

Hummm, guess I will talk to him before sending more in. I'm not sure you are correct though on the stainless vs oil hardening cut off. I was charged different rates for 1095 vs D2 vs 52100, etc.

 

[Drew Riley]

I know it's already been said, but I'll throw in another big +1 for Peters HT. Extremely reasonable prices, great turn around, precise results, etc...

I've looked into what it would cost to heat treat my own stainless WITH a cryo treatment, and it's just not realistic to think I'd save any money over sending it to Peters. Not to mention they'd still to a better job.

 

[james terrio]

Thanks, Stacy, I have spent the last several days working up a heat treat process for 52100 steel, and think I have the heat treating process solved. But, heat treating through all the steps is time consuming. I am thinking I can be more productive by sending the blades off and spending my time on other aspects of knifemaking.

You bring up an excellent point, not just about cost-effectiveness, but also for those who want to learn how do their own top-quality HT in-house. Surely it would be a worthwhile investment to send 6 blades to Peters, and do 6 blades yourself... then compare... then pick Brad's and other people's minds if there's a difference between the two batches.

He said that he was MORE than willing to try these things out...that he was constantly learning and trying to improve.

Yup.. Brad has told me more than once that he's spent 25 years learning about heat-treating, and hopes to spend 25 more years learning more. :thumbup:

I cannot stress this enough: if you have any questions about what alloys can be treated together, or how they should be treated, or how hard you want X steel for X application, CALL PETERS HT and ask to speak to Brad Stallsmith. It may take a day or two for him to get back to you (he's a busy guy), but once you get his ear, you will not regret it.