Phil Wilson Custom in CPM S110V full test.

Phil Wilson said:
I would say that this is a very comprehensive test on this knife. I certainly shows the edge holding potential of CPM S110V. This knife was pushed to the hardness and edge geometry limit and optimized for cutting abrasive materials like the rope and cardboard Jim used to challenge the blade. The hardness at 63.5 is about as hard as I can get this steel and still allow for a little tempering. Normally RC hardness values are expressed as plus or minus one point and to be correct I should have specified it this way. In this case I am confident the hardness is between 63 and 64. At this high hardness a thin blade like this would not be suitable for chopping or twisting out of the cut. Joe wanted this knife to be bare bones, no upgrades or special treatment. Therefore the Micarta handle, surface ground finish on the flats, belt finish on the blade and no thong hole liner. I guess you could say this is “field grade”. I used a similar blade on an antelope hunt a couple of years ago and field dressed, skinned and quartered 4 antelope and just had to back strop a couple of times to keep the edge biting good. Some would not have touched the edge at all and it would have been fine but just depends on how fussy you are about sharp. Rope cutting is a pretty good approximation of the abrasive effect of animal hair and hide so Jim’s test does give some correlation on what to expect with this steel in the field. CPM S110V is great steel but is still in short supply and is very expensive. I think there is more coming and hopefully it will be available and see more use in the future. It has equal or better performance than CPM S125V and is in the same general category as CPM 10V (K294), CPM 90V. The non stainless (10V and K294) can be pushed to a higher hardness with better edge holding and toughness, but take some care due to the potential for corrosion around salt water and wet environments. I am still working up the best heat treats for the Boher M390 and Uddeholm ELMAX. They don’t have the high carbide percentage as CPM S110V and the others but have very fine structure that can offset some of the difference and make for a great all around stainless blade. Thanks to Jim for the extensive test. I know how much work is involved and the time, effort and expense of the rope is considerable. Phil
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Hey Phil,

Isn't K294 the Bohler Microclean K294 also known as A11? 10V is CPM-10V made by Crucible, right? I was wondering if they are really that similar in toughness, hardness and edge retention. And now Bohler has the K390 which is supposed to be an upgrade to K294. :eek:

http://www.bucorp.com/knives.htm

Cheers!
 
Outdoors, Yes both CPM 10V and K294 are the A11 grade. To be correct I should use the full name Bohler Microclean. K390 is a mod of K294, and is tweaked for a little better toughness but at the cost of some wear resistance. At least according to the data sheet . I have some of it and plan to make a few knives and try it out. The old standby for me is CPM 10V and is the datum on which I compare edge holding to all others. I have not seen a significant difference between 10V and K294. The Bohler grade is advertised as a finer grain and that could come into play at very high hardness but RC 64/64.5 seems to be the practical limit for both of them. Phil
 
Phil Wilson said:
Outdoors, Yes both CPM 10V and K294 are the A11 grade. To be correct I should use the full name Bohler Microclean. K390 is a mod of K294, and is tweaked for a little better toughness but at the cost of some wear resistance. At least according to the data sheet . I have some of it and plan to make a few knives and try it out. The old standby for me is CPM 10V and is the datum on which I compare edge holding to all others. I have not seen a significant difference between 10V and K294. The Bohler grade is advertised as a finer grain and that could come into play at very high hardness but RC 64/64.5 seems to be the practical limit for both of them. Phil
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That certainly gives me the itch for steels, though I've learned my lesson that non-stainless steels are off-limits for me.
 
Phil Wilson said:
Outdoors, Yes both CPM 10V and K294 are the A11 grade. To be correct I should use the full name Bohler Microclean. K390 is a mod of K294, and is tweaked for a little better toughness but at the cost of some wear resistance. At least according to the data sheet . I have some of it and plan to make a few knives and try it out. The old standby for me is CPM 10V and is the datum on which I compare edge holding to all others. I have not seen a significant difference between 10V and K294. The Bohler grade is advertised as a finer grain and that could come into play at very high hardness but RC 64/64.5 seems to be the practical limit for both of them. Phil
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Hi Phil,

I know I owe you some feed back on the Bohler Microclean K294 knife you did for me and it will be the subject of a good in depth report, but such is the edge holding and great geometry of the knife that after some 6 months of using it I have only had to sharpen it twice :eek: LOL ... (and both of those occasions were just "light" touches on the ceramic rods of a sharpmaker to do a bit of shaving ...:D:D Seriously !! No joke !!) so the "scope" of what the knife can do in normal use is taking a while to find out ... but never has the bar been raised this high in my knife use ... so it should be worth waiting for ... I hope ;):D

The bottom line here is that I feel I should work with the blade at least a year to give any sensible feedback because so far it is re-defining for me a lot of my thinking on what is the best type of knife for belt carry.

I don't really see the benefit of replicating rope and card board cutting when it has already been done ... and these tests have already proven that the knives you do have a superb heat treatment and take a great edge which will last and last :thumbup:

My interest lies more in what the knife can be used for ... does it have any short comings ... how it can be improved ... and why ... and whether there are any competing knives which work better in the same "all-round" category ... and again ... if so ... then how ?

As I say ... your knife is very much "educating me" ... as much as I am "testing it" ...

The "education" is coming through "big time" as to what a difference a thin well thought through "geometry" the knife has and how "tough" it can be if used properly without "torquing" the blade so it might break BUT at the same time how fast and well it performs ... very much so when the geometry is applied to the cutting aspect of tasks ... but "tough" is'nt a word I thought would apply so much to the knife ...
and I do mean "tough" ... :):thumbup:

Anway ... for a bit of fun I thought I might do a little "Excalibur" parody ... :D Hope you enjoy it ...
 
Nice testing Jim. I do like the shape and simplicity of that blade. seems like it will function for a wide range of cutting/slicing duties. Is there a reason that the blade tang is so short? Weigh reduction? balance etc?
Soon you are going to have to start doing some Kitchen duty testing on these :) just for variety.
 
Kyley, Phil Wilson developed that tang to make the ( then) last of the S110V go a little farther. There never was a lot of the stuff around and for a while it disappeared completely. Phil, and pretty much everybody else didn't know if there would ever be any more made so he used it as efficiently as possible.

From personal experience I'll say it's as sound as any knife grip I've ever felt. Everything about Phil's knives is hand built quality even on the field grade models like the one above.

Joe
 
KyleyHarris said:
Nice testing Jim. I do like the shape and simplicity of that blade. seems like it will function for a wide range of cutting/slicing duties. Is there a reason that the blade tang is so short? Weigh reduction? balance etc?
Soon you are going to have to start doing some Kitchen duty testing on these :) just for variety.
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It's both of those and also what Joe posted about saving material. :)
 
Kyley, Well we meet again. I should probably address your question myself on the “partial tang” construction. Others may have the same question as well. Initially I had a limited amount of CPM S110V to try out and wanted to make it go as far as possible. I takes several blades to work out some heat treat options and do testing on different hardness ect. Later I was able to get more material but it is still in short supply and expensive. There is another heat on the way based on an e mail I got from Niagara. I did not invent this idea; I have seen it on custom knives in the past. In fact Wayne Goddard had used it years ago when he was making knives from planer blades and they were a little short for a full tang construction. Anyhow it does save material, makes the whole knife a little lighter, and now that I have done maybe 30 knives with this design I just like the looks and concept. It allows a contrasting spacer down the center and I have fun using different color combinations. The question of strength comes up… You did not address that but it is a fair question. It is very strong in the down cutting direction. In fact you would have to break the epoxy bond and shear the pins to induce failure. This according to my strength of material calculations would be somewhere between 500 and 700 pounds down force. Not possible with the human hand. The side force to failure would be less and depends on the strength of the scale material. I always use Micarta or G10 here, and feel that is more than sufficient strength for this type of loading. In fact I think the blade would fail by bending or breaking before the Micarta would just due to the stress concentration at the plunge cut. So with this loading it is pretty much the same as a full tang or even hidden tang. As we have discussed before (LOL) I do not recommend prying or twisting on my knives so one should not see a problem there. A long answer to a short question but seem like it needed to be addressed. Phil
 
Thanks Phil.. I'm by no means opposed to the partial tang, and I agree that in the range of use a lean knife like this would be used the full tang isn't required. I made many knives when I started using Svord Peasant Friction folder blades and converted them to full tang buy filling all the space with metal filled epoxy.. I could beat on them with a hammer without any fear of them breaking, and have some good video footage of how strong wood/or micarta is backed up by decent epoxy. There is no reason whatsoever that the test I put my epoxy handle to would not equally apply to your design. infact.. with the thinness of your blade, I'd believe someone is likely to do traumatic damage to the knife in general before the partial tang would fail. I'd also point out that my tests were on pinless knives.. just epoxy. this knife has a rattail tang from the friction folder and the rest is just glue..

its a great testament to how physically tough this handle can be, which is probably with less structural integrity than your 3 pin handle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMKU-ZhHA0

Its a great looking knife, and Jim sure seems to rave about it :)
 
Another excellent review Jim keep up the good work:thumbup: maybe one day I will be fortunate enough to own one of Mr Wilson's knives, They seem to be on another level entirely
 
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