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Once named, how does the fool re-make himself in the ways of wisdom?
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Philosophy II
- Thread starter shane justice
- Start date
"Once named' says it all.
Named by Whom?
A man is not a moment frozen in time. He is an event. Thus the lable, 'fixing' him in place, is the first thing tossed out as inaccurate for this discussion.
Let's take instead a man who has made a mistake, made a fool out of himself, and wishes to progress and move on.
Society does not have many avenues for redemption. It pays lip service to redemption, but our criminal codes put 'felon' on one forever, despite time served and paid, and even the most brilliant scientist, the one who fed the poor of the World will not be forgiven for accidentally setting Ice Nine into the Atlantic Ocean and Freezing it.
In reality, we do tend to repeat mistakes blindly and savagely until we somehow get it right.
1. Accurate perception
2. Admit what you have done
3. Take consequences and repair that which may be
4. Walk on
munk
Named by Whom?
A man is not a moment frozen in time. He is an event. Thus the lable, 'fixing' him in place, is the first thing tossed out as inaccurate for this discussion.
Let's take instead a man who has made a mistake, made a fool out of himself, and wishes to progress and move on.
Society does not have many avenues for redemption. It pays lip service to redemption, but our criminal codes put 'felon' on one forever, despite time served and paid, and even the most brilliant scientist, the one who fed the poor of the World will not be forgiven for accidentally setting Ice Nine into the Atlantic Ocean and Freezing it.
In reality, we do tend to repeat mistakes blindly and savagely until we somehow get it right.
1. Accurate perception
2. Admit what you have done
3. Take consequences and repair that which may be
4. Walk on
munk
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First, change your name and move to another town. 
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shane justice said:
Geeky glasses are always a good starting point.
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munk said:
I thought he was holding the crank of a gatling gun
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munk said:
It's an honor for me to be able to post it. May I attribute it?
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I wasn't being a wise-ass. I mean it. You can't change who you are when the expectations about you are fixed by your previous actions in the community. When I moved from Denver, where I was born and raised, to Champaign, IL where I went to college - I realized that no one knew me, and I could become a different person. Which I eventually did.Bri in Chi said:First, change your name and move to another town.
I used to be a jerk.
Now I'm nearly perfect.
Bri-
It's a handshake across the airways from heart to heart. The honor, is in being alive and sharing life, love, khuks and stories with you and our friends around us. If you 'attribute' it; they'll focus on a person, not on this wonderful event. Besides, it's not even that smart a line. But you can do what you want because IT'S ALSO not that big a deal. I don't mind.
Bless this place.
munk
It's a handshake across the airways from heart to heart. The honor, is in being alive and sharing life, love, khuks and stories with you and our friends around us. If you 'attribute' it; they'll focus on a person, not on this wonderful event. Besides, it's not even that smart a line. But you can do what you want because IT'S ALSO not that big a deal. I don't mind.
Bless this place.
munk
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OK. I'll attribute it to Ernest Hemingway
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munk said:
I was an Academic Advisor at The Big farm for a couple of years. Your experience is sooooooooo typical. The binge drinking was especially wun dur full.
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Paddle harder......Love many, Trust few, Learn to paddle your own canoe
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Guys,
I meant to get back sooner...but it was a day...
Munk said in his first post...."A man is not a moment frozen in time. He is an event. Thus the lable, 'fixing' him in place, is the first thing tossed out as inaccurate for this discussion."
A name, sometimes a mere word, carries with it a terrible power. Children are given names from there earliest days. It shapes them, in many ways. How many of us recall the names and words that changed us?
"Boy you sure are smart!" "Wow you are fast!" "You are very creative!" You are a polite child." And the others, "Stupid!" "Slowpoke!" "Fatso!"
I taught children art a few years ago. It was one of my favorite things. I was always amazed at how many 6,7, and 8 year olds had already decided they were..."just not good at art!" I asked several of them why they thought that...and each told me..."My art teacher told me."
We all know that groups use names as a form of control over it's members.
Ridicule is hugely powerful tool. All of us have experienced it.
Munk is right. A person is a living animate changing panapoly of light and sound and motion. Spiritually, physically, physcologically different fomr second to second.
But still those names stick. Because we do imprint them...they cannot be thrown out as inaccurate. They are valid...
However, Munk also mentioned that these names can be shed...and that may be so. But can the feelings that go with them?
I suppose it comes down to self-realization.
I am reminded of the story of the turtle and the scorpion.
The turtle is walking on the edge of the river when he comes upon the scorpion. The scorpion is crying. The turtle asks him what the deal is, and the scorpion says he is lonely for his family on the other side of the river. THe turtle just shrugs. The scorpion explains that he cannot swim and if he crosses the river he will drown. The scorpion immediately asks the turtle give him a ride across the river. The turtle's mama didn't raise a foolish son. SO the turtle refused. But the scorpion persisted. The scorpion asked the turtle why he would not help. ANd the turtle explained that he knew if he got close the scorpion would sting him. The scorpion promised that he would not. ANd besides, the scorpion cajolled if I sting you we will both drown. So the turtle obligingly allowed the scorpion to climb on his back. THe turtle entered the water and began to swim. THe scorpion high and dry on his back. As he crossed the deepest pool he felt the scorpion's sting. As he slowly sank beneath the surface he asked, But why did you sting me? And the scorpion answered, "Because that is my nature!" (This story was told to me by Dan Watson while I was employed at Angel Sword.)
Once a person is named... fool,thief,magician, liar....how does he find the path to wisdoom?
Shane
I meant to get back sooner...but it was a day...
Munk said in his first post...."A man is not a moment frozen in time. He is an event. Thus the lable, 'fixing' him in place, is the first thing tossed out as inaccurate for this discussion."
A name, sometimes a mere word, carries with it a terrible power. Children are given names from there earliest days. It shapes them, in many ways. How many of us recall the names and words that changed us?
"Boy you sure are smart!" "Wow you are fast!" "You are very creative!" You are a polite child." And the others, "Stupid!" "Slowpoke!" "Fatso!"
I taught children art a few years ago. It was one of my favorite things. I was always amazed at how many 6,7, and 8 year olds had already decided they were..."just not good at art!" I asked several of them why they thought that...and each told me..."My art teacher told me."
We all know that groups use names as a form of control over it's members.
Ridicule is hugely powerful tool. All of us have experienced it.
Munk is right. A person is a living animate changing panapoly of light and sound and motion. Spiritually, physically, physcologically different fomr second to second.
But still those names stick. Because we do imprint them...they cannot be thrown out as inaccurate. They are valid...
However, Munk also mentioned that these names can be shed...and that may be so. But can the feelings that go with them?
I suppose it comes down to self-realization.
I am reminded of the story of the turtle and the scorpion.
The turtle is walking on the edge of the river when he comes upon the scorpion. The scorpion is crying. The turtle asks him what the deal is, and the scorpion says he is lonely for his family on the other side of the river. THe turtle just shrugs. The scorpion explains that he cannot swim and if he crosses the river he will drown. The scorpion immediately asks the turtle give him a ride across the river. The turtle's mama didn't raise a foolish son. SO the turtle refused. But the scorpion persisted. The scorpion asked the turtle why he would not help. ANd the turtle explained that he knew if he got close the scorpion would sting him. The scorpion promised that he would not. ANd besides, the scorpion cajolled if I sting you we will both drown. So the turtle obligingly allowed the scorpion to climb on his back. THe turtle entered the water and began to swim. THe scorpion high and dry on his back. As he crossed the deepest pool he felt the scorpion's sting. As he slowly sank beneath the surface he asked, But why did you sting me? And the scorpion answered, "Because that is my nature!" (This story was told to me by Dan Watson while I was employed at Angel Sword.)
Once a person is named... fool,thief,magician, liar....how does he find the path to wisdoom?
Shane
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- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
I came to believe some years ago that we individually probably have much less choice than it might be nice to believe (except when trying to evade blame).
At the same time, I believe we must act as though we did have a choice.
I could rail against Nature for being, ultimately, stronger than Nurture, but there is no point (or, as a friend of mine says, "No percentage in it").
We are what we are, but who knows what we may become. Geez, I'm starting to sound like munk.
(speaking of which- maybe I find time to call this weekend, mano)
John
At the same time, I believe we must act as though we did have a choice.
I could rail against Nature for being, ultimately, stronger than Nurture, but there is no point (or, as a friend of mine says, "No percentage in it").
We are what we are, but who knows what we may become. Geez, I'm starting to sound like munk.
(speaking of which- maybe I find time to call this weekend, mano)
John
Shane- you said that very well. A lable can be a terrible thing to do or give to a person, particularly a child.
We also have sacraficial goats- we throw a few over so we do not have to examine ourselves, the many. We have examples of this every day. CEO's escape real prison time for ransacking corporation profits; but a few underlings, a tax preparer, takes the hit. In the Iraq Prison scandal, no one over the rank of SGT as yet has been prosecuted.
munk
We also have sacraficial goats- we throw a few over so we do not have to examine ourselves, the many. We have examples of this every day. CEO's escape real prison time for ransacking corporation profits; but a few underlings, a tax preparer, takes the hit. In the Iraq Prison scandal, no one over the rank of SGT as yet has been prosecuted.
munk
The label of 'fool' may come as the result of one action which is misunderstood by second individual who then broadcasts his/her opinion to others. They, in turn, perceive the 'fool' as exactly that.
I experienced just that sort of received wisdom (if I can call it that) during my working life where I had to work with guys from many other fire stations. Most of these alleged fools simply didn't quite conform to the name-caller's idea of what a firefighter should be although I found nearly all of them to be competent, capable people.
It becomes us all to take everyone at face value. Being able to make our own minds up about others without allowing ourselves to be prejudiced by an ignorant or bigoted minority allows the 'fool' to be seen afresh in the eyes of the world.
I experienced just that sort of received wisdom (if I can call it that) during my working life where I had to work with guys from many other fire stations. Most of these alleged fools simply didn't quite conform to the name-caller's idea of what a firefighter should be although I found nearly all of them to be competent, capable people.
It becomes us all to take everyone at face value. Being able to make our own minds up about others without allowing ourselves to be prejudiced by an ignorant or bigoted minority allows the 'fool' to be seen afresh in the eyes of the world.