Photos , opinions wanted on blade layout

[ken erickson]

I have had a conversation with Blues on this subject in the past and while talking with Ken Coats today thought I would ask for opinions , pros and cons regarding placement of the pen blade on jacks such as the Case 31 pattern which is a 3 3/4 regular jack with the pen blade on the PILE side.

I have noticed in looking at tons of pictures of vintage slipjoints it seems to me as if NORMALLY the pen blade will be sunk low on the MARK side, with both nail pulls facing the mark side.While having many examples of pens on mark side, I would like to see vintage FACTORY knives (newer examples such as Case is fine) with pen blades on the PILE side.

Also comments on the pros and cons of both blade arrangements would be very much appreciated Thanks in advance for taking the time to read, comment and or post pictures in this thread:thumbup:..

Soooo lets see your jacks with pens on pile side!

 

[Bastid]

I very much prefer having the pen on the Mark side. Having a tendency to use smaller blades as much as longer ones, for me they get used more when they are on the mark side. Might just be the way I pull the knife out of my pocket by feel and an old habit more than anything else.

When I pull a knife out of my pocket the mark side is already facing me typically. I like the idea of having a choice without flipping the knife over. In general I also like the looks when the pen blade is on the mark side.

If I have time, I'll post a few pics tonight of some old Robesons. I think I have one or two of each configuration.

 

[Bastid]

A doc's knife is nothing but a nice jack with a spear blade ... right?

Looks like the red bone in the middle is the only one with a pile pen.

I am sure we will have better examples when Charlie checks in. :thumbup:

I will take some more shots of it tonight.

 

[ken erickson]

A doc's knife is nothing but a nice jack with a spear blade ... right?


I will take some more shots of it tonight.

I would agree with that Gus, Looking forward to seeing pile side of the Robeson

Ken

 

[Bastid]

For me the only con is for the maker. Not much room to get both nicks on when the pen is on the mark side. I imagine a lot more thought goes into the design to be able to do that.

Interesting ways some of the companies above handled it. Note the long pull on the back of the Remmington close to the top of the spine vs log pull of the pen on the Cat up top and everything in between.

The two curved pulls on the Keen Kutter (second from top) look pretty cool too.

 

[Blues]

There's just no keeping any family secrets with you around, Ken, huh?






Actually, I think it's an interesting topic and one as Ken mentioned that we have hashed out in the past. I can think of a couple, three reasons for the secondary to be on the pile side:

1. If it affords the opportunity to have the master blade sit lower into the well thus allowing the spines of both knives to ride parallel to one another.

2. To remain faithful to the original design of a pattern that you like or are trying to reproduce.

3. If you like it better aesthetically or functionally.

All that said, I know that Ken prefers the secondary on the mark side when it can be achieved without sacrificing function or looks and Gus' point is well taken regarding utility.

Okay, Erickson, you may win this round this time but I ain't gonna take it lying down I tell ya... LOL!!!

 

[ken erickson]

For me the only con is for the maker. Not much room to get both nicks on when the pen is on the mark side. I imagine a lot more thought goes into the design to be able to do that.

Gus,

I PERSONALLY agree with your assessment and have thought it was a cost saving measure for the cutlery firms building knives to put the pen on the pile side . However being right handed for example I do not know if its possible that for a left hand user the pile side pen makes sense?

 

[ken erickson]

Okay, Erickson, you may win this round this time but I ain't gonna take it lying down I tell ya... LOL!!!

All valid points Elliott, and , if I did win this round, it would be the first and probably the only one!

To muddy the waters a bit I think if the secondary blade is more in line with the size as the master,pile side placement is more appropriate. Maybe I am letting the misconception that the pen blade is a blade not as often used and can be sunk down very low , out of the way, cloud my view on this.

Ken

 

[xbxb]

I have 12 jacks, 8 with blades on the mark side and 4 with blades on the pile side. Out of the 4 blades that are on the pile side 3 of the knives have a pen blade and one has a carpenters blade. The one that has the carpenters blade is the knife I carry almost every day. the other 3 by name are--Robeson Suredge butter and molasses made the year I was born (I was told 1948). For the knife that is. haha. A Case 8 dot 62087, and a Schrade xtimer 24otx that has 2 blades. It is the one that has blue blades. Would you like me to take pictures of any of those?

 

[ken erickson]

-Robeson Suredge butter and molasses. Would you like me to take pictures of any of those?

If you have a chance and not to much trouble I would like to see a few pictures of the Robeson Suredge.

Thanks in advance!

Ken

 

[xbxb]

OK I'll get done for you.

 

[Blues]

All valid points Elliott, and , if I did win this round, it would be the first and probably the only one!

To muddy the waters a bit I think if the secondary blade is more in line with the size as the master,pile side placement is more appropriate. Maybe I am letting the misconception that the pen blade is a blade not as often used and can be sunk down very low , out of the way, cloud my view on this.

Ken

Ken, as you and I have also discussed in the case of the whittler you built and other secondary blades on other patterns, sometimes the smaller secondary blade is the "go-to" blade for most cutting needs.

So, I don't necessarily think it's a safe assumption that the secondary will be less used. (Though it often seems that way on knives we find up on auction sites etc.)

 

[sgbeskin]

Ken,
I have a mint 1909 Camillus Jack and an OLD Keen Kutter I can send you to look at if you would like. You can send them back when you're through, let me know.

 

[xbxb]

OK now you know I'm not a photographer. I did the best I could --Ken if you need to see the knife or get some dimensions I would be happy to mail it to you. Just let me know. So here goes.

 

[rshives]

I don't have much of an opinion of which side the pen blade goes, however, as a lefty I keep my knife in my left pocket and when deploying it I have to switch hands. Holding the knife in my right hand while opening the blade with the left. (or turn the knife up-side-down) Would it matter which side its on if both nicks are on the Pile side for the lefties?

 

[300Bucks]

Buck doesn't make any American made knife that fits with the original theme of two blade pen knife with blades on same end. I like the idea of both nics visible from the front but do understand the "increase" in QC that would be needed to insure nics are nicely visible....I like the shape of a pen for general use and would like to consider it as a replacement to a spey in a stockman. I use a sheepsfoot for it's point and to 'chip' cut. A spey I sharpen to a fine cutting angle but have no need to casterate anything so use it to slice paper,cardboad and thin stuff that might move around while cutting. To be honest to my forum brothers I have "tuned" my knives of choice by honing on the tang toe once in a while to lower a blade to better match the others. Sort of 'advanced' QC.

I also favor the biggest and deepest nic that fits the blade size, I lament the loss of the long nic in favor of the smaller on most modern slipjoints.
300Bucks

 

[waynorth]

Seems like Case (rumored to full of Republicans) had more "lefties" in their management than most other companies!!
Here are three with pile side pens; a 62024 1/2, a 62055 and a 6294.

Still looking for more. Do you want pics with blades open, Ken?

(Don't forget, the hairs, scratches and mung, are scanner born diseases, and nothing to do with the knives!)

 

[ken erickson]

Thanks for the replies! I find this subject very fascinating as a student and maker of slips.

Thanks xbxb for posting the pictures of your Robeson, I must admit I like that pattern with that pen blade arraignment .By the way very nice knife.

Charlie,
Would you care to ponder a guess as to why Case seemed to favor this arraignment more than other makers? (pictures of blades closed gives me what I was after, thanks!)

Ken

 

[xbxb]

Your welcome Ken let me know if you want me to send the knife to you. (edit) Wow Ken I just looked at your knives. That 2 bladed whittler got my left arm jiggy. You are a terrific artist. Congratulations on reaching such a high level of talent. Jim Exby

 

[waynorth]

Thanks for the replies! I find this subject very fascinating as a student and maker of slips.

Thanks xbxb for posting the pictures of your Robeson, I must admit I like that pattern with that pen blade arraignment .By the way very nice knife.

Charlie,
Would you care to ponder a guess as to why Case seemed to favor this arraignment more than other makers? (pictures of blades closed gives me what I was after, thanks!)

Ken

Good question, Ken. If we keep the thought that decisions like this are made with potential customers in mind (along with an assortment of personal prejudices), we could guess that Case identified a demand, or was testing the waters. Or, all joking aside, a left-hander made the decision, once in a while.
Like others before me, I like the pulls on the same side, as it keeps me from fumbling around, flipping the knife over. I'll sacrifice a little in the profile, to have that "sameness".
If a guy is a "one-knife-man" then I think it makes more sense to have a pile-side pen. He would always know which side to go for, to get the blade he wanted. But if you carry a bunch of different knives, then the sameness of all nicks on the mark side is easier/handier.