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- Thread starter John J
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Great thread!
Several posts back, Schmoopiebear wrote:
The limited armour multiple weapons I have done outside of FMA in SCA style LARPING events I had to learn to compensate and adapt to techniques I was not accustomed to. This included flail and projectile weapons, also. The melee and pack scenarios were interesting, too. Lots of hit and run guerilla tactics could be employed en masse or individually.
About LARP (Live Action Role Play) -
Ive tried an event out west and can honestly say that, despite the obvious fun and games atmosphere, such activities have unique lessons all their own. Not only do you get to face multiple opponents in a melee situation, but projectile weapons are allowed (depending on the folks who are hosting the event, I guess)
Due to obvious safety restraints, power hits are not encouraged, at least where I tried this, but you can learn to work with strategies on a team level- pack hunting, ambushing, etc- and the effects of numbers on footwork, movement, space and aggressiveness.
I feel that in the future, stickfighting groups would benefit from team-style matches. Our group has done some skirmishes at Sayoc Kali seminars at Media, Pennsylvania and found that there is much to be learned from mixing it up in a group that isnt apparent in the duel-oriented sparring that most of us are used to. Its also a blast! Is it possible to get separate schools together for such an activity? Perhaps. Im hoping so, at least. Once the logistics are ironed out, Im confident that there are enough competent, mature and responsible FMA practitioners who can get together and pull it off.
Allain Atienza
Atienza kali
AtienzaKali.com
Several posts back, Schmoopiebear wrote:
The limited armour multiple weapons I have done outside of FMA in SCA style LARPING events I had to learn to compensate and adapt to techniques I was not accustomed to. This included flail and projectile weapons, also. The melee and pack scenarios were interesting, too. Lots of hit and run guerilla tactics could be employed en masse or individually.
About LARP (Live Action Role Play) -
Ive tried an event out west and can honestly say that, despite the obvious fun and games atmosphere, such activities have unique lessons all their own. Not only do you get to face multiple opponents in a melee situation, but projectile weapons are allowed (depending on the folks who are hosting the event, I guess)
Due to obvious safety restraints, power hits are not encouraged, at least where I tried this, but you can learn to work with strategies on a team level- pack hunting, ambushing, etc- and the effects of numbers on footwork, movement, space and aggressiveness.
I feel that in the future, stickfighting groups would benefit from team-style matches. Our group has done some skirmishes at Sayoc Kali seminars at Media, Pennsylvania and found that there is much to be learned from mixing it up in a group that isnt apparent in the duel-oriented sparring that most of us are used to. Its also a blast! Is it possible to get separate schools together for such an activity? Perhaps. Im hoping so, at least. Once the logistics are ironed out, Im confident that there are enough competent, mature and responsible FMA practitioners who can get together and pull it off.
Allain Atienza
Atienza kali
AtienzaKali.com
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,385
Before each of his DBMA classes at the Inosanto Academy, Guro Mark "Crafty Dog" Denny has students warm up in what he calls a "prison riot" drill. This is not sparring but it helps build situational awareness, as noted above. At several Gatherings of the Pack there have been some team knife or stick matches that were also pretty interesting from this standpoint.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,385
Before each of his DBMA classes at the Inosanto Academy, Guro Mark "Crafty Dog" Denny has students warm up in what he calls a "prison riot" drill. This is not sparring but it helps build situational awareness, as noted above. At several Gatherings of the Pack there have been some team knife or stick matches that were also pretty interesting from this standpoint.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2002
- Messages
- 1,091
A teacher of mine witnessed the aftermath of a duel with bolos. He was interning as a doctor in a hospital in Cebu in the '60's. One day a teen came in with an injury. His right hand was severed and hanging by the wrist by the tendons. He wanted my teacher to re-attach it so he could go out and duel again. My teacher remembers laughing when when he was asked that. The hand was amputated and the teens' wrist was wrapped up. My teacher attended many unsanctioned duels back then and had to be the doctor tending to injuries. he has witnessed many duels firsthand and quite a few of the stories were pretty lurid. I could rememeber him snickering when he mused about them. Yeah - life in the Phillipines. You can have it.
Shmoopiebear,
My father told me tons blade fights he "saw" in the Philippines growing up.
Funny, we saw the same kind of fights here in 5 boroughs NY (not as much frequency as what my father saw)...he thought that if he came to the states we wouldn't be exposed to that stuff.
Funny how things work out sometimes...
I once saw somebodys leg get hacked opened with a machete during a street fight. You could hear the machete hit the femur, and also see a bit of the femur. He was still able to jog away.
My father said that he walked away because the hacks were parallel to the quadracep muscles fibers so the muscles were still able to contract.
That is when I truly learned about cutting muscles perpendicular to muscle fibers (cross fiber lacerations)....You learn about that during training but when you see it the lesson gets embedded in your soul.
One of my students, who still lives in Jamaica, Queens (where we grew up), saw a father pass his son a machete before getting jumped by a few guys...so it still goes on over there
My father told me tons blade fights he "saw" in the Philippines growing up.
Funny, we saw the same kind of fights here in 5 boroughs NY (not as much frequency as what my father saw)...he thought that if he came to the states we wouldn't be exposed to that stuff.
Funny how things work out sometimes...
I once saw somebodys leg get hacked opened with a machete during a street fight. You could hear the machete hit the femur, and also see a bit of the femur. He was still able to jog away.
My father said that he walked away because the hacks were parallel to the quadracep muscles fibers so the muscles were still able to contract.
That is when I truly learned about cutting muscles perpendicular to muscle fibers (cross fiber lacerations)....You learn about that during training but when you see it the lesson gets embedded in your soul.
One of my students, who still lives in Jamaica, Queens (where we grew up), saw a father pass his son a machete before getting jumped by a few guys...so it still goes on over there
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2002
- Messages
- 1,091
... and people wonder why some would like to live in fenced in, gated, high security controlled communities with armed guards?
Let me see. You hail from New York. Atienza Kali is out there. Sayoc Kali is located there. American Combatives is located there. Vee Arnis Jitsu is located there. Pekiti Tersia is located there. Kuntao Silat is located there. Pannanandata is located there. Is it understandable why those schools do so well there? Sheesh!
Let me see. You hail from New York. Atienza Kali is out there. Sayoc Kali is located there. American Combatives is located there. Vee Arnis Jitsu is located there. Pekiti Tersia is located there. Kuntao Silat is located there. Pannanandata is located there. Is it understandable why those schools do so well there? Sheesh!
Hello Everyone,
Great to hear all of the constructive conversations going on!!
Dances with Knives, can you explain Guro Marc's "Prison Riot Drill" ,I had heard he had recently started teaching this and even went over it at the recent DB Instrucor Camp, sounds somewhat similar to the Atienza Kali "Mass Attack" level 1 drill. It would be great to hear a review.
All the best
Guro Steve L.
www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net
Great to hear all of the constructive conversations going on!!
Dances with Knives, can you explain Guro Marc's "Prison Riot Drill" ,I had heard he had recently started teaching this and even went over it at the recent DB Instrucor Camp, sounds somewhat similar to the Atienza Kali "Mass Attack" level 1 drill. It would be great to hear a review.
All the best
Guro Steve L.
www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,385
I haven't been to one of Guro Crafty's classes in several months, so I don't know all that he may be doing with "prison riot" training. However, the warmup drill is pretty mellow---not sparring.
You place about 6-12 people in a confined area (Guro Crafty uses a wrestling mat that is probably about 20' by 20'). Everyone is required to move over the full surface of the area. You cannot stand in one corner with your back facing away from the others. You cannot just circle around the perimeter, you must pass through the middle. The idea is to practice triangular pattern FMA footwork while moving. As you are moving, you try to touch the other players where they are most vulnerable---on the back. In the warmup drill nobody is striking, just tapping/lightly slapping. Needless to say, you try to move in a manner that prevents the other guys from tapping your back.
Guro Crafty usually runs the drill to salsa music so that people are motivated to move. It is typically done with empty hands, but sometimes he tells us to grab our favorite training weapon (that's where the "DancesWithKnives" humor came from). You would then have to tap with your off hand.
When you have that many people in a confined area, it is surprising how quickly an apparently disinterested bystander can turn into a real threat. The title of the drill may even have a certain amount of realism in it because one of Guro Crafty's class members, Dogzilla (yes, he's a pretty big, tough guy!), was a max security prison guard. As I understood it, he supervised three-strike types in the kitchen where they were working with sharp things. I was also told he was the point man on one of the teams that extracts recalcitrant prisoners from their cells. After training with him a few times, I would be inclined to come out of the cell immediately upon request!
You place about 6-12 people in a confined area (Guro Crafty uses a wrestling mat that is probably about 20' by 20'). Everyone is required to move over the full surface of the area. You cannot stand in one corner with your back facing away from the others. You cannot just circle around the perimeter, you must pass through the middle. The idea is to practice triangular pattern FMA footwork while moving. As you are moving, you try to touch the other players where they are most vulnerable---on the back. In the warmup drill nobody is striking, just tapping/lightly slapping. Needless to say, you try to move in a manner that prevents the other guys from tapping your back.
Guro Crafty usually runs the drill to salsa music so that people are motivated to move. It is typically done with empty hands, but sometimes he tells us to grab our favorite training weapon (that's where the "DancesWithKnives" humor came from). You would then have to tap with your off hand.
When you have that many people in a confined area, it is surprising how quickly an apparently disinterested bystander can turn into a real threat. The title of the drill may even have a certain amount of realism in it because one of Guro Crafty's class members, Dogzilla (yes, he's a pretty big, tough guy!), was a max security prison guard. As I understood it, he supervised three-strike types in the kitchen where they were working with sharp things. I was also told he was the point man on one of the teams that extracts recalcitrant prisoners from their cells. After training with him a few times, I would be inclined to come out of the cell immediately upon request!
Hello Everyone,
Danceswithknives: Thanks for the drill information! From what I have heard about Dogzilla, I agree with you! (Yes Sir, I will come out of my cell now! (LOL)) I'm trying to arrange my schedule so I can finally get to meet and train with Guro Crafty sometime this year, my schedule is pretty tight for the next couple of months but after that it should open up a bit, for some DB training.
Last year, I had hosted the Atienza Guros(Carl, Darryl, and Allain) up for a seminar and they introduced the "Mass Attack Drill" which has similar attribute development components as the "Prison Riot Drill." Great fun, and a good cardiovascular workout. Constantly moving and engaging multiple opponents, while trying not to be overwhelmed.
Just a quick note on:"When you have that many people in a confined area, it is surprising how quickly an apparently disinterested bystander can turn into a real threat" Just the other night we were playing out some "every man for them self" scenarios with training blades, and it was very interesting to see the random attack from someone who just appeared to be a bystander!
Train Hard it is the Way!
Guro Steve L.
Danceswithknives: Thanks for the drill information! From what I have heard about Dogzilla, I agree with you! (Yes Sir, I will come out of my cell now! (LOL)) I'm trying to arrange my schedule so I can finally get to meet and train with Guro Crafty sometime this year, my schedule is pretty tight for the next couple of months but after that it should open up a bit, for some DB training.
Last year, I had hosted the Atienza Guros(Carl, Darryl, and Allain) up for a seminar and they introduced the "Mass Attack Drill" which has similar attribute development components as the "Prison Riot Drill." Great fun, and a good cardiovascular workout. Constantly moving and engaging multiple opponents, while trying not to be overwhelmed.
Just a quick note on:"When you have that many people in a confined area, it is surprising how quickly an apparently disinterested bystander can turn into a real threat" Just the other night we were playing out some "every man for them self" scenarios with training blades, and it was very interesting to see the random attack from someone who just appeared to be a bystander!
Train Hard it is the Way!
Guro Steve L.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2003
- Messages
- 22
Hello all, new guy here, kinda sorry to see this string inactive!
Hope it's not too late to respond, this seems like a great topic!
I have little in the way of formal training so excuse my ignorance please. I was introduced to "stick fighting" ( kali ) in the Navy. Also pentjak-silat, no particular style... It seems that there is alot these arts have in common, not the least of which is the use of sticks and blades.
The training methods involved in silat( from what I've read ) include a form called the "kerojok". This name implies " a fight of one against many". It is a test of skill, to evaluate the continuous responses to "gang-attack" tactics. As many as eight or more "enemies" may use whatever means available, both armed and unarmed! There is no prearrangement as to the type of attack that will be used and this is usually done on natrural surfaces. ( no padded matts to fall on ) The "defender" must use any means he can to "survive".
I have not seen a stick fight since my last visit to the PI. At that time it scared the **** out of me because it got out of hand and two men died later in the hospital from their injuries! I have NO intrest in any sport application of a combative "art". The gun is my weapon of choice because of this traumatic event. Self defense comes in many forms but in my opinion it is not "sport" or "art". Killing and/or maiming another human being is just "a thing to do", it's vile and disturbing (to me ) to think that somone would want to do it for "fun".
"There's more art in an ink-blot than a bloodstain" So much for my thoughts on it... later people!