Pin Shadow in Bolsters

ddavelarsen

ddavelarsen

Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Messages
5,179
Well, I got caught the other night leaving a bit of pin shadow, and Guy Thomas and I have been discussing what might have caused it. The pins were clean when I put them through fresh holes.

Think it might be some epoxy that got pushed through with the pins? It hasn't shown up in the past on pins I know had epoxy on them, but who knows? I could be all wet.

Any discussion on the idea hitting hard with a big hammer will swell the pin more in the middle, before peening with lighter blows?

Finally, does anyone have experience with sealing the bolster/ricasso join with superglue after the bolsters have been pinned on? This is Guy Thomas' idea and one that's very appealing to me.

Any ideas are welcome. Thanks,

Dave
 
Dave, I do mine with light hammer work, swelling the pins more from the outside, peining the pins round as I go. After I round and swell the pins until just snug, I pein the pins just slightly harder , striking the center of the pins. This swells the pins on the inside, as the secondary step. The reason I do it this way is from years of peining steel rivits heated by a rivet forge. I was riviting steel triangle shaped mower bar blades, and a lots of them. You had to pein them this way to get the rivits to hold. Usually you have to do just a little rounding after the center pein strikes using the round pein end of the pein hammer for the rounding. As you know, I use Accuglas gel for bolsters if it is a glue job, and havn't had any discoloring from it, nor discoloring with my pein work. Not yet, anyhow. You may have just had that one out of a thousand happen on that bolster rivet job, too. When you are doing everything right and things go to crap I know how frustrating it is, too.
 
There's a term the old knifemakers used for polishing the spine of a knife with a hard, polished piece of steel. I have been trying to remember that term for months. But anyway, take a piece of round(preferably)polished steel, harder than the pins/bolsters, and rub the affected area. I have heard that you can make some pin halos disappear that way. Good luck.
One other thing, you don't ever want to get ANY substance on the pins when installing.:eek:
 
John,

So you glue and peen!? Cool, I've been afraid to do that because I figured the glue would end up on the pin and ruin the deal.

Could you please expand a bit on how you do that?

The accuglas gel? I thought that'd be too thick and you couldn't get the bolster flush.

Do you use just a small drop, so it won't get in the pin hole?

Do you loosely assemble the bolster and pins, then drop in some accuglas?

????

I'm really interested in this and would like to do it your way. Just worried I might be missing something.

Steve

PS I did an experiment and used JB Weld without pins on some scrap. The bolsters did not sit tight enough against 'tang' for me. Even tho I heated the metal to thin the JB and squeezed with a clamp. I suppose you don't have this problem with accuglas.
 
Hey Mike, the term you are looking for is burnishing. The Japanese sword polishers do this to the the unhardened backs of the blades they are working on.

Fooling around one night I burnished the exposed brass pins in the wood handle of a knife I was working on with the side of an upholstery needle (that was your neck knife by the way Dave). You get a surface appearence that is very shiny but not in the same way as if you used a buffer. I can see where using that method on bolsters would hide a pin halo.
 
Itrade, the accuglass is like sticky butter, and will squeeze out really fine. Clean up is pretty easy with acetone,ect., with Q-tips. I rough the pins where they fit under the surface of the bolsters, giving the glass some extra hold. When peining, the extra squeezes out just fine, and the pin material expands to fill the drill hole without interference with accuglass trying to compete with the pin material to fill the hole. As an example of how fine the stuff is, I low temp silver soldered a guard onto a blade. Solder joint looked really good. When I accuglassed the handle on, a very fine, tiny "worm" of accuglass came out between the guard and blade.I cleaned off the excess and could see no hole! You want to know how good the stuff holds? Some of my handles comprised of sections of sandpapered-roughened thin shim stock brass,wood,and antler glued into a rough square block on the handle. Then next step would cut to closer form with bandsaw. The scraps would be thin pieces of lengthwise scraps, glued end to end, actually. Try breaking them! I mean, the dang scraps act like a one piece material scrap, and you aren't going to break it at a joint, even the metal to material joints. P.S., Yes, loose assembly, glue, and assemble. Just be sure to cover all contact surfaces, and you dont want to over do it. Just enough to cover both contact surfaces, because all extra will certainly squeeze out, adding to clean up work.
 
Thanks a heap, John! That's the plan then. I've been so concerned about creating 'halos' that I haven't even tried that. But always figured something was needed.

RE: acraglas

I do believe you about stronger than .... I was already planning on switching from Devon. Having used bedding compound before (different brand) I know how strong it can be.

BTW Midway started carring a competing brand to Acraglas. I ended up talking with the guy who developed it. I asked about heat up to 200 degrees. As you know devcon comes 'unglued' at that temp. He said that temp would at as an extra hardening step - it would actually improve! Might hold true for Acraglas.

... blab blab blab ....

Back to this thread, if you say the acraglas gel won't interfere with the pins and peening count me in.

Ordering it right now.

Steve
 
You are most welcome, Itrade. I still use the Devon on some repair jobs, and it is still good stuff for certain applications. When you order the 'Glas, I would not order the large size unless I planned on making a lot of knives in one year's time. I can thank my old gunsmith and knifemaker, Eldon Aby, for putting me onto this stuff years ago.
 
John,

Too late, I've been wanting to switch for so long I bought the 16 oz size. $60:eek: :eek:

However, its ability to fill large voids and not shrink plus strength I can think of all kinds of uses.

One that comes to mind is putting together hidden tangs without pins.

I also bought some atomized aluminum to make JB Weld like stuff.

Thanks again,

Steve
 
Itrade, notch the tangs a few times before inserting them in the handle, just for insurance. I guarantee the tang will never move! Most of my knives have been hidden tangs. I don't like pins in a good looking handle, and the Brownell's Accra Glass has allowed this. Doing it this way will save you some serious time, too.
 
Thanks Dave, my son found my Brownell's catalog over the weekend so I was able to look it over. They have lot's of stuff I'd like to get aside from the Acraglas!
 
Drill your pin holes ih the bolsters.
Then go back with a taper remmer, I
made mine. Cut a taper about 1/2 the
thickness of the bolster. Pein the pins
then with a big hammer I use a 2# one
smack the hell out of it that well swell
the pins an If pin material is the same as
the bolsters the pin will just disappear
I hope that msakes sense
 
I do it basically the way Sylvester does. But another way is Tim Hermans method. He leaves aprox .050" pins showing on each side, puts the whole shebang in his machinist vise and tightens up on it. He said it works better than anything he tried previous.
 
yeah me too..
like Sylvester said and I also taper the pin on each end
like a cone, this way when you peen it it's like wedging
material down the center of it swelling it out
and if the bolsters
have a small gap use a piece of leather on the anvil under it so the pin will
move tightening the bolster then you can finish peining .
I like that burnishing too..after the fact...good back up
just 2 more cents:)
 
I hate to belabor this issue, but I have more questions.

How do you keep the bolsters snugged up to the tang during the process? If I taper the holes, will it tighten up while I pound?

I've had to clamp. Then peen one pin in over the corner of the anvil. After that was set I remove the clamp and peen the rest.

Steve
 
as I said
use a piece of leather on the anvil under it so the pin will
move tightening (while peening)the bolster then you can (finish) peining as you were,,, I'm not good with words in type..:barf:
edited to add, this is done after most the work is done and
if you have too tighten the bolsters in.
 
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