Ping Cliff Stamp... I got chips...Bad steel?

[Cliff Stamp]

[the web]

Once you step into responding to an infinte world of posts/replies, you can go on forever airing your company's business/statements in public ...

The internet isn't infinite, plus you are not reading every new post on every subject, which would be fairly time consuming.

Many makers and manufacturers will respond to questions on the internet, this arguement ignores the reality that it can and is readily done.

In fact it is trivial to find those that will go even further than this and seek out comments made about them and comment indirectly.

If you want to have direct editorial ability on every post this can be done, there are several forums which are ran this way.

...whereas responding to direct contacts (mail, e-mail, phone ... from customers or journalists) is more manageable from the standpoints of cost, time and risk.

Of course many maker/manufactuers like to keep problems in private, from a customer point of view it is best to have those discussions public.

-Cliff

 

[MGF]

It's far from trivial if the company involved doesn't supply (1) the personnel to handle this sort of thing and (2) adequate training (3) a voice for those personnel within the management structure. You most certainly do not want people interacting with the public if they have do not have the power/authority to help the public.

I've seen people in the position of being tasked to handle this sort of thing "from the corner of their desk." It gets ugly.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea; I'm saying it involves cost and many (if not most) businesses are either not willing or not forward-looking enough to make the investment.

There's nothing saying you have to trust my experience on this, but I can assure you that a decently run and responsive web presence for a company of any size requires at least one full-time person for starters. If the company already turning large profits (read: millions) through more "traditional" means, management may not see the incentive.

Is it a good idea? Probably is, and I think will see more of it in the future.

With that said, I'd repeat my basic premise: From cost and risk perspectives, there is not a one-to-one correlation re replying to edited hardcopy publications and replying to material on the Web.

Ask a media law expert.

Re "infinite" consider the number of hardcopy publications in the U.S. and Canada vs. the number of people with the ability to post on the web. Of course the number of potential posters is not "infinite" ... it is simply vastly larger.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I'm saying it involves cost and many (if not most) businesses are either not willing or not forward-looking enough to make the investment.

The biggest problem is people seeing the magazies as advertising and thus worth of the effort to respond and place ads there, and the internet as just idle chatter. A quick check on the influence that it has made for various makers/manufacturers should show this is trivially false.

The legal issue is interesting though, so legally if a maker were to write a statement of performance or price or whatever in a magazine it is more binding than saying the same thing on the internet (assuming proving it was them of course was not the issue).

-Cliff

 

[MGF]

Cliff,

I believe you and I are headed down different paths with our discourse.

To clarify where I'm coming from, I have both run newspaper newsrooms and had, on occassion, the duty of speaking for a newspaper or two. For that matter, in an earlier incarnation, I was involved in union stewardship to a degree that I at times had to speak to the media.

So the basis I have for experience is (1) as a journalist/editor and (2) as a guy who's on occasion had to represent the public/business/image interests of very profitable enterprise (3) as someone who's had to speak on behalf of workers and (4) as the guy who used to get to ask the questions of execs, politicians, lawyers, etc.

I guess all I'm trying to say is there are definite downsides to trying to respond to every word written about you, whether it be in pen and ink, broadcast or Web media.

Sometimes, the best course in terms of good will is to just keep making good product day in/day out and let it speak for itself.

Of course, my experience is not directly comparable to that of a manager or executive involved in the production of hard goods, but it has its similarities.

Re the legal aspect, I was referring more from the view of publisher vs. distributor, and there are some differences there. That is, the courts have at times taken different views of the contents of edited publications as opposed to the content of forums moderated after the fact. Internet publishing is a young area of law so, in fact, the courts are still struggling with many of its issues.

We are probably boring are fellow knife enthusiasts to death.

Regards.

Mark

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I guess all I'm trying to say is there are definite downsides to trying to respond to every word written about you, whether it be in pen and ink, broadcast or Web media.

I don't think this is possible, but again no one is really arguing for that. It comes up mainly when people post problems about a product which are actually fairly rare. How many posts similar to the above are in regards to TOP's for example, it isn't even a post per month issue. Even the heavy active forums like Spyderco's don't have a constant flood of posts require a comment from Sal.

-Cliff

 

[bigjim]

For the record.... I am not bashing TOPS. They have stepped up and offered
to sharpen the knife for free which is all that can be reasonably expected.

What I was hoping for was a non-threatening, non-emotional chat about heat treating, ways to check for this type of defect and so on. I was hoping to engage the TOPS folks here since it would be fun and maybe useful to do so.

Not looking to get a thick factory edge put back on the knife since this is a neck knife and not a AXE. I want to be able to cut. My edge even with the chips cuts better than the factory one.... so I am gonna hold what I got.

However I do give them credit for offering.

Jim

 

[Jeff Clark]

You could try a brass rod test along the edge. If that causes chips the blade is too hard.
http://www.caffreyknives.net/testingart.htm

 

[Cliff Stamp]

They have stepped up and offered
to sharpen the knife for free which is all that can be reasonably expected.

It sounds defective, I would expect it to be replaced if I had the experience you describe.

-Cliff

 

[Allen242]

Hey Jim, you can get any angle you want on the blade if you let Mike know what you want when you send it in. If indeed it is a problem with the steel he will replace it and resharpen it to whatever angle you wish.

 

[Brian Jones]

Cliff,

I believe you and I are headed down different paths with our discourse.

Regards.

Mark

Mark,

Cliff just likes to hear himself talk and thinks EVERYONE should pay attention to him...that's all.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Mark,

Cliff just likes to hear himself talk and thinks EVERYONE should pay attention to him...that's all.

LMFAO true, oh so true.
Scott

 

[bigjim]

If you read the title of this thread started by ME you will note I asked for Cliffs input by name. Understand?

I can't help but think what you guys are complaining about is what you most dislike in yourselves. Also I have been informed that personal attacks and flames are not in accordance with the forum rules.

Now I imagine three things could happen here.....

You guys could say you are sorry, and shut up. This is unlikely to happen.
Because as senior members of this board you feel entitled to break the rules and run off at the mouth.

A moderator could enforce the code of conduct. Also unlikely for nearly the same reasons.

The most likely outcome.....this thread will continue to be ruined and end up locked. As stupid as reputation points were in concept and execution....they sometimes had a purpose.

Now back to our normal grade school bickering.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Now I imagine three things could happen here.....

In general, for those reading, don't let posts like the above prevent a question from being asked. I don't mind email, but prefer discussion for several reasons, mainly it lets the makers/manufacturers to see what is being said about them, plus allows for contention. If you don't want to get involved, which I can understand, email is fine.

Jim let me know how the knife turns out when it gets resharpened/replaced if you get a chance. There should be no problem running 1095 at very low edge angles, the edge should look perfectly smooth even under 10x mag and form crisp with minimal burr. I usually run my utility 1095 blade at ~5 degrees per side, though the grain there is finer than tops due to the hardness, it should not be as limiting as you describe.

-Cliff