With all the custom knife (especially) and axe makers on here you'd think somebody would step up to the plate and start making small runs of 'top drawer' forks. Then again when a bloke can get $500 for a knife then maybe making forks, shovels and hoes is too complicated and not very attractive financially.
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Pitchforks?
- Thread starter Able_walker
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With all the custom knife (especially) and axe makers on here you'd think somebody would step up to the plate and start making small runs of 'top drawer' forks. Then again when a bloke can get $500 for a knife then maybe making forks, shovels and hoes is too complicated and not very attractive financially.
300Six,Yessir,that's about a correct assessment...(except that a $500 knife may(and does frequently)translate into $2-3 an hour...).
I've long ago,by now, failed as a commercial blacksmith.But even when i still struggled,only one product that ever came out of the forge brought any money-a cabinetmaker's holdfast.About $20 an hour,and it was just an accident that it worked out like that(a lucky break,an article in Woodworker's Magazine,et c.).
And even that was for the Hobbyist market....
This thread contains some excellent information(many thanks to everyone again),and if you look close,you'll see that mention of 33(!) machines used in the production of some of these old forks...(to do one by hand has long beem my crazy dream,but it's WAY hard and long and hopelessly impractical....i'd have to forge-weld the different parts together,not "open" it like these old patterns(and out of medium-C steel,too!these things are amazing....).
My one machine,a puny,1930-ies vintage LG25,is down for lack of funds to repair it(or lack of work for it,either way).And even it,in it's day,was a very limited-use tool-to draw out the plowshares,that's what a (well to do)farmer or a small village iron shop would have one like that.
I live in a "subsistence" economy,and at times make ice-chisels,pike-pole ends,and assorted harder to find older harware for people,but only as a friendly gesture(and to keep my hand in,i do love forging so...).
The ambient wage is about $40 an hour,the cost of living-commesurate,so,yep,forging on a small scale is a couple of hundred years behind us now...Alas and alack...
I've long ago,by now, failed as a commercial blacksmith.But even when i still struggled,only one product that ever came out of the forge brought any money-a cabinetmaker's holdfast.About $20 an hour,and it was just an accident that it worked out like that(a lucky break,an article in Woodworker's Magazine,et c.).
And even that was for the Hobbyist market....
This thread contains some excellent information(many thanks to everyone again),and if you look close,you'll see that mention of 33(!) machines used in the production of some of these old forks...(to do one by hand has long beem my crazy dream,but it's WAY hard and long and hopelessly impractical....i'd have to forge-weld the different parts together,not "open" it like these old patterns(and out of medium-C steel,too!these things are amazing....).
My one machine,a puny,1930-ies vintage LG25,is down for lack of funds to repair it(or lack of work for it,either way).And even it,in it's day,was a very limited-use tool-to draw out the plowshares,that's what a (well to do)farmer or a small village iron shop would have one like that.
I live in a "subsistence" economy,and at times make ice-chisels,pike-pole ends,and assorted harder to find older harware for people,but only as a friendly gesture(and to keep my hand in,i do love forging so...).
The ambient wage is about $40 an hour,the cost of living-commesurate,so,yep,forging on a small scale is a couple of hundred years behind us now...Alas and alack...
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Peter Vido of Scythe Connection and Axe Connected has tried for many years now to find a tool maker capable of making a copy of old American forks. Every single one of them he's shown them to have remarked that they couldn't make them that nice at any price--it was beyond their ability.
Square_peg
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Not surprising. That's why I keep my eye out for good old forks.
Thank you jake pogg for an honest and experienced appraisal of the current situation with hand tools that don't appeal to, nor are appreciated by, the spendthrift masses. I have a wonderfully tapered thin and springy old hay fork hidden away somewhere and will go out and see if I can find it 30 years after buying it on a whim (no risk for $5!) at an Estate sale.
I've often thought when picking up one of my old axes, drawknives, forks or other tools of the men that worked in the factories, often in a line of forges. I imagine the din and smoke. Yet they turned out comfortable and beautifully shaped tools often with laminated blades or other complex work. Few have the skill to duplicate these old tools today. Something has been lost with modernization but the old tools live on.
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A lot of it has both to do with market demand and the change in the workforce. Apprenticeship for those jobs often was considerable and guys would spend their whole lives working in the industry. These days most folks hold a particular job for just a few years and then bounce on to something else.
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A lot of it has to do with Health and Safety regulations these days which is a good thing to protect workers but that does add a huge cost to any manufacturing operation. When politicians say they will "Bring Manufacturing Back!" I have to shake my head....I doubt you could get the permits to open a Forge or a Foundry these days and if was near a water source that would add even more issues.China may have our manufacturing but they also have all the pollution and health problems with the workers as well.Someone mentioned earlier that a UK company moved their forge to India...I admire their hard work and skill but I'm not seeing any steel toe boots...lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngWVuJCHkPc
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Nah--those are minor factors at best. It's really more about the skilled labor required (hard to find suitably skilled workers and keep them), the cost of such complex manufacturing, and what the market at large would actually be willing to bear for a final price. There's too big of a disparity there. Forks and other hand tools are making a comeback, but the market's not what it once was for them.
I have several of these with no handles that I rescued out of scrap iron piles thinking I might see if they would forge into a small blade. Now I think re-handling them might be a good idea. Any ideas where I might get some handles? I guess the length of them might make it a bit pricey to ship?--KV
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O.P. Link has 'em, for certain, but I'm pretty sure all the other handle manufacturers have 'em too.
Oh,Kvaughn,PLEASE don't reforge them,it'd be a great shame,and they're only some humble,medium-carbon-ish alloy,nothing at all exciting...New steel is cheap,and WAY better...I'd personally send you a chunk of brand-new,passported AISI 1095...
Handle them,it'd be an investment for the future,definitely culturally speaking,but probably financially as well,look above at the prices these things fetch...(and very rightly so...)...
As a general note,"re-purposing" older,essentially unknown composition alloys,adds WAY too much to the already unfavorably balanced equation of the "craftsmanship of risk" factor in forging.99% of the time unjustifiable....
Handle them,it'd be an investment for the future,definitely culturally speaking,but probably financially as well,look above at the prices these things fetch...(and very rightly so...)...
As a general note,"re-purposing" older,essentially unknown composition alloys,adds WAY too much to the already unfavorably balanced equation of the "craftsmanship of risk" factor in forging.99% of the time unjustifiable....
Square_peg
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House has a fantastic array of fork, hoe and rake handles. Those I've orderd have been good. But I've had issues with them shipping the right product (long story).
p.s.
The nearest to me(if not exactly near) hardwood supply place has clear,straight-grained,Air-dried(!),White ash dowel,1 1/2" dia.,for what seems to me always dirt-cheap....Surely,way down south where you guys are,where the stuff actually Grows...
That D(or rather Y)handle SquarePeg posted is beautiful...Everything about it says:"Quality".Doesn't seem like exactly rocket-science technologically,with the minimal tooling....
The nearest to me(if not exactly near) hardwood supply place has clear,straight-grained,Air-dried(!),White ash dowel,1 1/2" dia.,for what seems to me always dirt-cheap....Surely,way down south where you guys are,where the stuff actually Grows...
That D(or rather Y)handle SquarePeg posted is beautiful...Everything about it says:"Quality".Doesn't seem like exactly rocket-science technologically,with the minimal tooling....
Will take your advice. Just didn't want to see them scrapped. Thanx--KV
I'm not a connoisseur of 'forks' but I did inexpensively pick up a brand-spanking new one, with springy tines, out of a clearance bin (the local hardware store wasn't having any luck selling these) 25 years ago. My personal wood stamp on it says 1993. I used it for a few years to turn over material in the leaf and kitchen compost pile. I must have left it leaning against an exterior wall for the duration because the wood finish has deteriorated. Otherwise it's still in great shape and I oiled it (WD-40) right after taking these pictures.
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I love a good capped ferrule. Any taper on those tines? It's hard to see from the photograph, but it's old enough that it might--it's the right brand for it.
The tines are oval in shape at the base and about 3/8" in dia (say 7/16 x 1/4). and taper to 1/4"- round just before the sharpened tips. Highly unlikely I'll ever use this again and if somebody out there really needed or wanted this they are certainly welcome to contact me. I suspect this implement (and the other ones that were in the bin with it) languished in the store for at very least a few years before the manager decided to clear them out.
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Nice. Looks like a fine fork!
Sign of the times (tines?) huh. Who in their right mind (namely those with $50-200 in disposable cash in their wallet) would have bought an unfashionable manual 'hay fork' in the 90s when gas-powered whipper-snippers/leaf blowers/electric-powered grass, brush and wood saws and all manner of continually-evolving cordless "junk" was at the forefront of outdoor living ads.