pits in 1095 after heat treat

lonepine,

I'm also a newbie hobbyist bladesmith, so I hear what you're saying about the learning curve. I've been at it for 2 years and I'm finally starting to be proud of my work.:D I'd suggest working with 1080/5160/etc. because they are much easier to heat treat with simple equipment. I get very consistent results out of 15n20 with a propane one-brick forge and ATF oil quenchant. Save the D2 for when you have good temp controls, or send it out for HT.


Check out Don Fogg's Bladesmith forum, there's a wealth of info over there.
 
Thanks tychoseven. I think I will try 1080. I use charcoal because I can make it out of scrap wood and it costs me nothing. (Can you hear the little birds going "CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP"?) I'm allegedly retired but expenses exceed income and I have to save my money for the steel. Live and learn, and learn, and learn ...
- Paul Meske AKA Lonepine
 
lonepine said:
I treated three blades last week and again they have the "bumps" on the 1095 steel. I don't think it is scale because sand paper makes them shine like the rest of the metal. I soaked one in vinegar for an hour (after tempering) and other than removing the surface oxidation it did nothing to remove the bumps. I gotta figure how to post a picture.

I suspect I did the D2 all wrong. I treated it the same as the 1095, heat it until nonmagnetic and then a vegetable oil quench. No soaking. No foil envelope. Not hot enough, huh?

My "forge" is a coffee can filled with homemade charcoal and a blower from a hot water heater proving draft. If D2 is not able to be hardened with such a primitive (mostly cheap) apparatus them I will stop using D2. This is my second year of making knives with about a dozen finished. I do a lot of scrounging and spend money when I can't find what I need, like for good steel.

I find It to be very confusing reading these posts at times. For instance one person might say that 1095 shouldn't be quenched in water and another person will say just the opposite. I don't know what to believe. I suspect that they may BOTH be correct but only for their own particular circumstances.

Having vented a little bit (sorry for that) I appreciate your feedback, advice, etc. Learning to make knives has been an exciting learning experience for me, far more complicated than I thought it would be. I suppose anything is easy if you don't have to do it.

- Paul Meske
Click to expand...

Stop using D2 if you do not have a kiln for heat treating it, a coffee can forge is simply inadequate for doing it correctly. Read the stickies on using hypereutechtoid steels and you may stop using 1095 too. Your blisters may be overheating issues, that kind of sounds like what you get just before the carbon liquifies the surrounding iron and runs out in small sparkling fountains leaving a carbon depleted sponge behind

Aldo Bruno and kelly Cupples have 1084, personally i like what Aldo sells best. it is the perfect steel for what you are doing

-page
 
Page:
I have decided to do just what you suggest, i.e. stop using D2 all together. I'm gonna use up the 1095 on hand and switch to 1080/85. I noticed that at the Admiral Steel site they list 1075/80. Is the slash-mark because they can't control the carbon content of the steel or what? and why wouldn't they shoot for .84% carbon since that's the "sweet spot" as I understand it?

What I'm learning is that neither 1095 nor D2 is good for a beginner or anyone without a good heat source. I'm wondering if 5160, O1, A2, or 52100 are also not suitable for a crude heating source such as I use?

One answer only seems to generate two or three more questions.

- Paul
 
lonepine said:
One answer only seems to generate two or three more questions.

- Paul
Click to expand...

Ain't it grand? :)

Seriously, I've been working with steel, silver, and gold for 40 years, and I thought I had a pretty good grasp of the metallurgy. Not only have I learned more in the last year than I ever knew about the behavior of metals, I've begun to understand how much I don't know.

While the conflicting opinions here (all with credible proof, no less!) can be frustrating, what I thought would be a simple, sweaty hobby has turned out to be a wonderful intellectual adventure.


Doc
 
Kelly Cupples / octihunter@charter.net
2807 Butterfield Rd.
Yakima Wa. 98901
509-949-5231

Quench Oil Now in Stock


Current steel in stock as of 04-23-10, payment, business check, personal check, or money order.
Bar stock is in 4' lengths. 15n20 is in 4' lengths. Will negotiate cut lengths.
Prices are per lb except O-1 and bar stock are per Ea.
Steel Orders 100.00 and up, shipping included UPS ground within the continental USA, or USPS flat rate box.

( Approx) per #
1080
1/8 x 1.................................( 27" in a lb )....................4.45......................4'.......8.00 ea
1/8 x 1 1/4..........................( 23" in a lb )..................4.45......................4'......9.25 ea
1/8 x 1 1/2...........................( 19" in a lb )...................4.45......................4'.....11.25 ea
3/16 x 1.............................( 19" in a lb )...................4.45......................4'.....11.25 ea
3/16 x 1 1/4.......................( 16" in a lb ).................4.45.....................4'....13.50 ea
3/16 x 1 1/2........................( 13" in a lb )................4.45.....................4'....16.50 ea

1065
1/4 x 1 1/2........( 10" in a lb )...............................2.75.................4'...13.25 ea

1095
3/16 x 1 1/2.......( 13" in a lb )..............................4.75.................4'....17.50 ea.
5160
1/4 x 1..............( 14" in a lb )..............................4.15..................4'...14.25 ea
1/4 x 1 1/4........( 12" in a lb )..............................3.30..................4'...13.25 ea
1/4 x 1 1/2........( 10" in a lb )..............................3.50..................4'...16.75 ea

O-1 Precision Ground
3/4 x 2 1/2 x 36.......( 20 lbs ).................................................75.00 ea.

15n20 Will shear to most width and lengths.
.058......................................................................................................5.00 lb.
.065......................................................................................................5.00 lb.
.095......................................................................................................8.00 lb.
___________Everything below this line subject to freight.___________________

1084 Powder.........(Coarse mesh)...............................................................3.00 lb.

1095 Powder...........(Fine mesh)..................................................................3.75 lb.

4600KC Powder........(Fine mesh).................................................................4.00 lb.
2% Nickel & Iron .8 Carbon

4800KC Powder........(Fine mesh).................................................................4.25 lb.
4% Nickel & Iron .8 Carbon

Pure Nickel Powder...(Fine mesh)...............................................................22.00 lb.

Containers for shipping powder in, 3 lb..$1.50.. ea., 7 lb..$1.75.ea., 25 lb..$2.50 ea.

Monel 200 Nickel Sheet Fully Annealed
.010 x 5-7/8"...................( 60" in a lb.)...........................................................30.00
.020 x 9-1/2"...................( 16" in a lb.)...........................................................30.00
.020 x 1-1/2"...................( 97" in a lb.)...........................................................30.00

Anhydrous Borax .............................................................................................3.00 per lb.

Heatbath Quench Oils
Parks 50............................5 Gallon Bucket...................................................$125.00
AAA....................................5 Gallon Bucket...................................................$110.00

ALDOs here:

http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=3427
 
Last edited:
lonepine said:
Page:
I have decided to do just what you suggest, i.e. stop using D2 all together. I'm gonna use up the 1095 on hand and switch to 1080/85. I noticed that at the Admiral Steel site they list 1075/80. Is the slash-mark because they can't control the carbon content of the steel or what? and why wouldn't they shoot for .84% carbon since that's the "sweet spot" as I understand it?

What I'm learning is that neither 1095 nor D2 is good for a beginner or anyone without a good heat source. I'm wondering if 5160, O1, A2, or 52100 are also not suitable for a crude heating source such as I use?

One answer only seems to generate two or three more questions.

- Paul
Click to expand...

You can get away with 5160, but it will not be anywhere near as satisfying results as you will get with 1084, in the immortal words of Monty Python, O1, A2, and 52100 are right out. If you want to play with more complicated "high performance" steels you need to seriously up your game equipment. Most steel manufacturers do not make steel for knifemakers, there have been a couple of steels developed for bladesmiths (CruForge) and Aldo occaisionally commissions small batches from a small meltshop, but for the most part bladesmiths use steels developed for some other purpose

-Page
 
Greetings,
I too have been getting pits in 1095 fter heating to what I think is 1525'F by color in a gas fired NC forge. I put the blade in a steel pipe inside muffle to avoid direct flame impingement. I also get what is a hamon following the contour of the middle thickness of the bevel grind. It is from the hamon to the cutting edge that I get pitting and surface figures that are in the steel and look like damascus patterns. For certain it is associated with the thickness of the steel at the grind area. I am not even certain that I am getting good hardening on these blades because I am not confident in my ability to read temperatures by color.

Any observations or suggestions?
Washoe
 
Welcome to the forums.

This thread is a year old. It would be best to start a new thread.
Fill out your profile to get some better help, too.
 
If you are getting bumps, they are not steel bumps, unless they were already there. 1095 is a water hardening steel. However, in the thickness of a knife blade, it is subject to crack in water. 1095 in a knife requires an oil quench, or much experience in brine quenching. Canola oil heated to about 125° will allow for a decent blade, but still not as good as possible. Your best bet, with the equipment you have, is to use 1075/80/84, with the canola. Any of these will give you a very good blade. 1095 should not be heated much over 1475° with a few minutes of soak for best results. It is not a beginners steel. Stay with hypo-eutectoid simple steels until you get better equipment, and you will have much better success. You can advance your steel choices as you advance your equipment.
 
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