Pivots Pivots Pivots!

[Harden Knives]

Hey all!

Getting a bunch of friction folding blades cut out with a waterjet, and i have a few questions on pivots.

First up: My design has a 0.2400 pivot hole for the waterjet guys and then i can ream it to 0.2500. Do I ream it before or after I HT it? I am using AEB-L so i dont think scale will be a problem but i have no idea.

Secondly: These are the pivots im going to use http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/hardware.htm , (.250" Stainless Pivot), now it says the head of the larger end is 0.475 so i'd assume i would use a 0.5000 counter boar but that seems a little crazy...Will i get a clean cut if i use a huge boar like that? I plan on doing custom filework and pivot modification, so should i just grind the head to size?

Third: I am planning on using a 0.1250 stop pin, should i go with the .125" Stainless Pivot from alphaknifesupply as well? Looks like it will work and that pivot setup is what has been recommended by alot of people. My other option is a pressure fit stop pin(?) which is simply a piece of rod which is filed to size before pressing it into two half holes (not drilled all the way through both sides of the scales).

Fourth: Phosphor bronze washers? I was planning on using them because i hear they are self lubricating but if anyone has a better type id love to hear it.

Last question: Not related to pivots, but i am thinking of doing my own sculpted pocket clips out of titanium....Any drawbacks? Is it worth it to simply buy premade clips? I also dont like sheet metal pocket clips really, I like the look and feel of sculpted alot more.

Thanks in advance and I am hoping some other noob sees this and gets some help too.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Its "BORE", not BOAR.

A little extra around the head is good.

.125" stop pins are good. Harden them for better wear.

 

[Harden Knives]

Its "BORE", not BOAR.

A little extra around the head is good.

.125" stop pins are good. Harden them for better wear.

Haha caught the typo but was too lazy to edit, thanks alot.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Hey all!

Getting a bunch of friction folding blades cut out with a waterjet, and i have a few questions on pivots.

First up: My design has a 0.2400 pivot hole for the waterjet guys and then i can ream it to 0.2500. Do I ream it before or after I HT it? I am using AEB-L so i dont think scale will be a problem but i have no idea.

Secondly: These are the pivots im going to use http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/hardware.htm , (.250" Stainless Pivot), now it says the head of the larger end is 0.475 so i'd assume i would use a 0.5000 counter boar but that seems a little crazy...Will i get a clean cut if i use a huge boar like that? I plan on doing custom filework and pivot modification, so should i just grind the head to size?

Third: I am planning on using a 0.1250 stop pin, should i go with the .125" Stainless Pivot from alphaknifesupply as well? Looks like it will work and that pivot setup is what has been recommended by alot of people. My other option is a pressure fit stop pin(?) which is simply a piece of rod which is filed to size before pressing it into two half holes (not drilled all the way through both sides of the scales).

Fourth: Phosphor bronze washers? I was planning on using them because i hear they are self lubricating but if anyone has a better type id love to hear it.

Last question: Not related to pivots, but i am thinking of doing my own sculpted pocket clips out of titanium....Any drawbacks? Is it worth it to simply buy premade clips? I also dont like sheet metal pocket clips really, I like the look and feel of sculpted alot more.

Thanks in advance and I am hoping some other noob sees this and gets some help too.

1. I'd size those holes a bit smaller for the waterjet (wj) but have heard you can go straight from wj to reaming. Make sure it is cut very cleanly as they will need to be very accurate ff you are leaving so much removal to the wj. If I was doing that I'd go a bit under 6mm on the wj, drill with a 6-6.2mm bit then ream. I personally only spot my holes at maybe .090" when waterjetting... some holes are done one one side only as I clamp my frames and spot the holes for accuracy.

I'd ream .001" under before heat treat then lap to final fit.


2. A 31/64" end mill will work well to counterbore the AKS 1/4" pivot heads. 1/2" is also fine but leaves a bit more clearance. The size is up to you but you can't go wrong with the AKS pivots, they are as good as they get. 1/8" is really plenty for just about anything, I like 1/4" pivots and the largest hardware i can squeeze in. It is tough to get such a large counterbore just right but not too tricky with a good setup.


3. I'd press fit the stop pin on one side (ream .001" under) and "float" it (.001" over)on the other. If you press fit both sides you may have alignment problems when adjusting the pivot, etc.


4. You can't go wrong with Phosphour Bronze washers. Nylatron is also nice but I prefer PB.


5. clips - sculpted Ti clips are a ton of work but worth it to me. I do both types of clips.


I hope this helps... I'm on break right now from working on 17 friction folders.

 

[Harden Knives]

1. I'd size those holes a bit smaller for the waterjet (wj) but have heard you can go straight from wj to reaming. Make sure it is cut very cleanly as they will need to be very accurate ff you are leaving so much removal to the wj. I'd personally go a bit under 6mm on the wj, drill with a 6-6.2mm bit then ream. I just spot my holes at maybe .090" when waterjetting.

I'd ream .001" under before heat treat then lap to final fit.


2. A 31/64" end mill will work well to counterbore the AKS 1/4" pivot heads. The size is up to you but you can't go wrong with the AKS pivots, they are as good as they get. 1/8" is really plenty for just about anything, I like 1/4" pivots and the largest hardware i can squeeze in. It is tough to get such a large counterbore just right but not too tricky with a good setup.


3. I'd press fit the stop pin on one side (ream .001" under) and "float" it (.001" over)on the other. If you press fit both sides you may have alignment problems when adjusting the pivot, etc.


4. You can't go wrong with Phosphour Bronze washers. Nylatron is also nice but I prefer PB.


5. clips - sculpted Ti clips are a ton of work but worth it to me. I do both types of clips.


I hope this helps... I'm on break right now from working on 17 friction folders.

Thanks ,man! That's the kind of advice that i love to hear! Press fitting sounds a little trickier than the 2 screw pivot system, is it worth it? Or is it just preference?

I don't have a mill, will a drillpress get the job done?

Really appreciate you're time.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Thanks ,man! That's the kind of advice that i love to hear! Press fitting sounds a little trickier than the 2 screw pivot system, is it worth it? Or is it just preference?

I don't have a mill, will a drillpress get the job done?

Really appreciate you're time.

Thanks, i'm always happy to help.


Two screws and a pivot/standoff will work great, that is what i do on my current friction folders.

You will be fine with a drill press, just make sure there is little play or runout. Check out a few videos on tramming your press and make sure it is good. You'd need to do that with a mill anyways.

Straight holes and flat parts are what folders are all about, my granite surface plate/sandpaper gets a ton of use. You will probably need to sand everything flat at nearly every step... deburring holes and the like.

 

[Harden Knives]

Thanks, i'm always happy to help.


Two screws and a pivot/standoff will work great, that is what i do on my current friction folders.

You will be fine with a drill press, just make sure there is little play or runout. Check out a few videos on tramming your press and make sure it is good. You'd need to do that with a mill anyways.

Straight holes and flat parts are what folders are all about, my granite surface plate/sandpaper gets a ton of use. You will probably need to sand everything flat at nearly every step... deburring holes and the like.

That answers alot of my questions, Thanks again.

Alex.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Thanks!

I'll also say whatever system works best for you is the way to go. I have done a ton of reading on folder making and worked out my own funky system that works great for me.

I'd make one at a time until you are 100% happy with everything.

It helps to lay out all of your tooling in order... it is amazing how long you will be at the drill press or mill and this will save time and error.

OK I better get back to work!