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P'kal Teaser
- Thread starter Joe Talmadge
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That seems a bit akward to me. Also, would it be harder to engage the wave feature? Well, when I get the money im going to buy one so i'll see for myself eventually.
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Hers a few pics to help you out. I only have a flipper on my carry blade and have know problem engaging it on the front of the pocket instead of the back. This access is much faster and much more secure then rolling the blade in your hand under pressure. If you don't have a wave or flipper you just snap your wrist down to open the blade. Here's some pics
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I'm not sure what you mean by rolling, but when I open a P'kal in the "normal" manner, I just pull it out and close my fist. No contortions, no rolling, the knife is in the preferred grip without any further manipulation.
Yours looks like you turn your arm, pull the knife out just far enough to clear the clip, turn your arm again so that the wave is pointing forward and then pull it the rest of the way out and close your fist.
Note that the bolded part above is all I'm doing in what I called the "normal" method, because the wave is already pointed forward.
Or am I still not understanding what's going on?
Yours looks like you turn your arm, pull the knife out just far enough to clear the clip, turn your arm again so that the wave is pointing forward and then pull it the rest of the way out and close your fist.
Note that the bolded part above is all I'm doing in what I called the "normal" method, because the wave is already pointed forward.
Or am I still not understanding what's going on?
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I think rolling means rotating the knife in the hands?
For example, i dont have a wave or anything to demonstrate, but i'll use a BM grip as a demo. I carry it right side clipped in the pocket. Now if I insert my thumb into my pocket and pull out the knife and snap it open, the blade is pointing down edge in. Then I rotate the knife in between my fingers into a pikal grip.
While I understood amok_hodges when he first described how he does it, I still find it a bit strange for me. Your arm will be sticking out like a chicken wing. Sure once you get the knife out and snap it open, all you have to do is close your hand and its in position. The problem I see is that from the time you go to draw the knife to getting to the point of getting the knife in grip, your vulnerable. Maybe its just me and I havent practiced enough, but as I draw the knife out, it seems my grip on the knife isnt that strong. Meanwhile if I just pull the knife out with my thumb inside the pocket, I may have to roll the knife into the proper grip but the whole time it feels more secure in my hands and faster than rotating my arm multiple times.
EDIT:
Heres a video of what I think the def. of the normal way and amok_hodges way is respectivly:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v38/ziptrickhead/?action=view¤t=pikaldraws.flv
For example, i dont have a wave or anything to demonstrate, but i'll use a BM grip as a demo. I carry it right side clipped in the pocket. Now if I insert my thumb into my pocket and pull out the knife and snap it open, the blade is pointing down edge in. Then I rotate the knife in between my fingers into a pikal grip.
While I understood amok_hodges when he first described how he does it, I still find it a bit strange for me. Your arm will be sticking out like a chicken wing. Sure once you get the knife out and snap it open, all you have to do is close your hand and its in position. The problem I see is that from the time you go to draw the knife to getting to the point of getting the knife in grip, your vulnerable. Maybe its just me and I havent practiced enough, but as I draw the knife out, it seems my grip on the knife isnt that strong. Meanwhile if I just pull the knife out with my thumb inside the pocket, I may have to roll the knife into the proper grip but the whole time it feels more secure in my hands and faster than rotating my arm multiple times.
EDIT:
Heres a video of what I think the def. of the normal way and amok_hodges way is respectivly:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v38/ziptrickhead/?action=view¤t=pikaldraws.flv
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The security of the draw is definitely the critical question that the success of this knife depends on. At first, using the draw I'm currently using, it was a bit precarious. Now, I've managed to modify it a bit, in that I get maximum amount of finger area on the knife as I draw; in addition, I don't really "feel" the roll anymore, I simply close my hand and somehow everything works out. So I think I'm getting a secure draw into pakal. Once the trainer comes out, I'll try some draws under pressure and see if it holds up.
Randy, I hadn't even thought about doing it the way you describe! I'll have to practice, it feels really precarious to me right now. I'm especially leery of the idea of having only the pads of three fingers on the knife on the draw, especially considering how tight the clip is and how grippy the G-10 is. But I'll play with it to see what I think, thanks for pointing it out! I'll advise that the "roll", which feels so big and precarious at first, practically disappears with enough practice -- like I said, I don't even feel the roll anymore, I just close my fingers and it works out, everything is very tight and secure.
Joe
Randy, I hadn't even thought about doing it the way you describe! I'll have to practice, it feels really precarious to me right now. I'm especially leery of the idea of having only the pads of three fingers on the knife on the draw, especially considering how tight the clip is and how grippy the G-10 is. But I'll play with it to see what I think, thanks for pointing it out! I'll advise that the "roll", which feels so big and precarious at first, practically disappears with enough practice -- like I said, I don't even feel the roll anymore, I just close my fingers and it works out, everything is very tight and secure.
Joe
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Lately I've just been leaving the P'kal loose in my pocket and pulling it out. The clip is still on it, and the knife doesn't shift a lot, so blind "indexing"/proper grip is easy. The wave seems to work just as well this way as when it's clipped.
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donuts, I've been doing a fair amount of that as well. The only problem is that if the knife rotates around in teh pocket, sometimes the wave doesn't deploy. So I orient it and a quick wrist-snap takes care of the opening in those cases, and closing the fingers moves it into pakal
I just got mine in today. Here is how I draw:
The knife as it would look in the pocket(for a right-hander)-
Then drawing-
The knife ends up about here, fully engaged. With my limited experience with the knife and drawing, a successful deployment ends looking like this:
So far, the knife requires a very quick snap up to lock properly. It is different than my Endura Wave, but I draw that a bit differently anyway.
The knife as it would look in the pocket(for a right-hander)-
Then drawing-
The knife ends up about here, fully engaged. With my limited experience with the knife and drawing, a successful deployment ends looking like this:
So far, the knife requires a very quick snap up to lock properly. It is different than my Endura Wave, but I draw that a bit differently anyway.
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I'm finding that (at least with the cargo shorts I'm wearing tonight, with vertical slit pockets) if I pull the P'kal "straight up" out of my pocket, it works every time with the wave catching at about the midpoint of the vertical pocket (not the top), and if my hand is moving forward then it's more like 50%-60% success needing your aforementioned wrist snap or a forward slash to set the blade.
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eojk: Are you doing a two-fingered pinch grip there? When the trainer comes out, you might want to pressure-test that. I know that kind of draw definitely does not work for me! I'm looking forward to the trainer and seeing how all these draws work for me.
The grip of the second and third photos is more to show the knife itself opening. I hold it more firmly with thumb, index, and middle fingers in a "pinch," so I guess this is what you're asking. I'm still learning with this knife. I think the tautness of the pocket clip is making drawing tough. I am going to have to practice more, but I still don't trust waves on knives, so we'll see. I do wonder if this knife could be adapted to one of Normark's Speed Dialers, though.
Sal Glesser
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I loosened the pocket clip a bit. I like my clips a bit looser.
sal
sal
Guys think carefully about how much you loosen that clip. One of the reasons we want some degree of tightness is so that there's minimal shifting of the knife once the angle of ride is set up by the end user. If it moves around on the seam of the pocket to much the waved draw is going to be inconsistent.
Sal Glesser
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Hi Southnarc,
Thanx for the input.
Any information you'd like to share would be appreciated.
sal
Thanx for the input.
Any information you'd like to share would be appreciated.
sal
Some thoughts and recommendations so far:
The knife ships for a right handed user and the correct orientation is as it sits in the pocket is that the spine is forward. That means that the way that it's intended to be drawn is forward. Traditionally waved knives are drawn rearward. We stayed away from this due to the design's intended application in a confined space. A rearward draw when you are on your back working butterfly guard or within the confines of the bucket seat of a small economy car, is more difficult than drawing forward. We wanted the knife to be capable of deployment even with one's arms pinned. One can do this if it's deployed in the manner that it was designed to be.
I also recommend running the P'kal in the hip-thigh crease as opposed to the rear seam of the pocket. This is another reason we want the tension on the clip relatively high. As long as one's pants aren't Tom Jones tight then there shouldn't be a real problem provided one puts in some time. Just like breaking in a new holster.
The knife ships for a right handed user and the correct orientation is as it sits in the pocket is that the spine is forward. That means that the way that it's intended to be drawn is forward. Traditionally waved knives are drawn rearward. We stayed away from this due to the design's intended application in a confined space. A rearward draw when you are on your back working butterfly guard or within the confines of the bucket seat of a small economy car, is more difficult than drawing forward. We wanted the knife to be capable of deployment even with one's arms pinned. One can do this if it's deployed in the manner that it was designed to be.
I also recommend running the P'kal in the hip-thigh crease as opposed to the rear seam of the pocket. This is another reason we want the tension on the clip relatively high. As long as one's pants aren't Tom Jones tight then there shouldn't be a real problem provided one puts in some time. Just like breaking in a new holster.
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Mr. SouthNarc's last post was very eye-opening. Thanks!
The P'Kal is an interesting design and I like the lock, without having one had in my hands. But the P'Kal is very specialized and maybe not the ideal knife for every day works.
Sal, are plans to produce a knife with exact that lock, but in a more regular design?
I am dreaming of a knife with a flat grind blade, similat to a military and with G-10 handle scales and with that version of the Ball Bearing Lock!
Sal, are plans to produce a knife with exact that lock, but in a more regular design?
I am dreaming of a knife with a flat grind blade, similat to a military and with G-10 handle scales and with that version of the Ball Bearing Lock!
I have one coming in shortly courtesy of MD tactical but while waiting have a question. Does the wave interfere with reaching in one's pocket or is it hardly noticeable. Based on what I read I'll be carrying it the way it was designed to be carried but am wondering about the possibility of opening the blade due to the wave and has this happened yet to anyone.
Oh, gosh, yes, yes, please!
I would LOVE to see a more "normal" shaped one... with a decent guard... not just a tiny finger choil or a speed bump.
In the meantime, however, the P'kal does a surprisingly good job in everyday utility -- it is oddly comfortable in a semi-pinch/saber grip, and I did some food prep with it the other day... provided you don't want to keep your SD blade pristine and sharp. >.>
-j