Placing Custom Order

Here is my 2 cents worth.
$ 25 is not much money for a deposit and you can get it back.I say this because of James Piorek policy that you have to put down a
25% NON-refundable deposit when you order a custom and his wait is probably 3 to 4 years now.Luckily i only have another year to wait on my order.In saying this you might come to the conclusion that i have a problem with this,not really because of James and his attitude toward his craft.Just wanted to point out that Emerson's deposit system is not bad and yes i do have an order in and i have no idea when i will see it either.I have a 6 and soon to have a 7 and 9.I really like his stuff,just wish their communication skill were a little faster and better.Guess i will just keep working the OT to buy his stuff as it becomes available.
 
BH,

One reason to spend a lot of money and order a custom knife is to get it your way. A lot of custom makers will modify their designs to accomodate the buyer. Some custom makers will even make your design. I think part of the reason that Emerson doesn't modify his models for the customer is that there is too much demand for his knives as they are. If you decide that your choice of materials is more important than the investment of a collectible Emerson, than I recommend looking for another maker. Greg Lightfoot comes to mind and he makes models very similar to the CQC6. Good luck in choosing, I know it is a tough decision.
 
Lightfoot makes an excellent folder but there are two major differences between the CQC6 and the 458/460 that come to mind.

First, although Lightfoot also offers a chisel grind, he puts a secondary bevel on his blades while Emerson grinds the primary bevel right down to the edge which in my opinion, provides a superior cutting edge for defense work.

Second, the opening action of Lightfoot's folders is quite stiff and is built to stay that way. Emerson's folders flick open with ease - extremely smooth action. Both actions have their merits and preference is solely a matter of personal choice. I like both.

Actually, a third element just came to mind and it pertains to finish and workmanship. After closely examining my 460 and my CQC6 it is quite obvious that the 460 is the result of a higher level of craftsmanship. The fit and finish is just more precise and more detailed. There are visible tooling marks on the bolsters and thumb ramp of my CQC6 while no such marks exist on the 460.

Both knives are excellent and they are not as similar as many believe. The Lightfoot is a heftier knife and feels more solid than the CQC6 , but the Emerson is a bit more elegant, sleek and perhaps more lethal due to its primary bevel chisel grind. Personally, I prefer the CQC6 for defensive carry. And I feel that these knives are quite different in character; if someone wants a CQC6 don't expect to find similar traits in a Lightfoot 460 and vice versa.


[This message has been edited by Ronald Reagan (edited 06 October 1999).]
 
Everyone has heard that Emerson has said that he "doesn't make pretty knives, he makes knives for use." Some people have gotten new CQC6's which had minor scratches on the Ti-bolster (probably from the slip of a screwdriver or something)

Nevertherless, I have to disagree with you Ronald on the fit and finish of Emerson's handmade knives. If you examine your CQC6 closesly, you may notice that the bolsters are ground down and radiused at various angles on the surfaces and even each of the "corners or edges" of the bolsters have been smoothed out and subdued. There is a lot of detail on the knife itself.

When it comes to lock up, my CQC6 exceeds all of my other folders, production and handmade, including a CQC8. The lock just touches the blade so that it is a very solid fit, but not impossible to disengage. It's like he completely nailed this linerlock and did it perfectly.

Sincerely,

Jason Yang
 
Jason,

I agree with you on the liner lock, my CQC6 probably has one of the best. But regarding fit and finish, you should check out my knife and compare it to knives of other makers...it doesn't hold up in terms of finish. This is not to say that the knife is poorly constructed, quite the opposite! It just isn't as "polished" as some other makers' knives.

[This message has been edited by Ronald Reagan (edited 06 October 1999).]
 
Ronald,

You forgot one other major factor that almost everyone overlooks.

The 458 Magnum by Lightfoot is ground on the correct side for a right handed person. Emerson's is not.

Imagine holding the Lightfoot in your hand. Now cut into a post side ways. You will note at the blade bites into the post, the handle will torque towards the palm of your hand. This provides you with additional leverage with less fatigue.

If you were to do this with the Emerson you would find that the blade would torque towards your fingers. This would require you to use additional hand strength to maintain control of the knife while you are working with it. This defeats the purpose of the mechanical advantage you want to create. This will make the knife harder to maintain control of as well as fatigue your hand quicker.

As for Greg's knives being stiff, use it for about a week. The knife smooth's out very nicely.

Greg's worksmanship is superior to Emerson. The steel that Greg uses BG-42 is superior to ATS-34. Carbon Fiber is superior to Micarta or G-10. Greg has a 6 month wait, returns phone calls. Delivers almost to the day when the order is due.

Guys, let's be honest, the only reason you want an Emerson is because of the name. At this point there are many superior knives (in quality).

So just understand that according to Emerson he has over 2400 orders. He is probably making 200 custom knives a year. 300 is considered good for a full time maker.

Gentlemen, do the math. You say plunk your money down and wait for 5 years. Will you even want that knife 5 years from now. Will Emerson make custom knives for that many more years? Is it really 5 years?

But Brian makes a good point, it is only $25.00


 
Ok Mr. Robertson

I understand about the ground being on the wrong side for a right handed person and all. But what are Mr. Emerson knives made for? To cut, most likely cut bad people right? Do you have any doubt that these tools will not do this?

OK it might be harder to cut into a post, but come on when's the last time a post jumped out and attacked you?
smile.gif


Now a Badguy with skin, nerve endings, blood, organs, I think if you do your part the Emerson's knife will hold up it's end of the bargain. We can get into the torque and fatigue and all but in a all-out fight if it cuts (which I'm sure they will) it's doing just what I want it to do.

I've seen Greg's knives and yeah they are nice and I've been tempted and will probably own a couple later on down the road, but the reason I want an Emerson is because I like the knives. I own others besides Emersons but if a person like them just for the name so be it.

Yeah I know the wait is long but so is the wait for a Mitch Rosen holster which I think is worth the wait. If you don't want to wait than sure get another knife. I see no problem with that.

Respectfully and one of your customers Les
Ross T.
 
Les, thanks for bringing that point up....I did forget to mention it. But Ross just made a very good point - a post won't jump out and attack. Emerson's blades are sharp enough to control a cut into clothing or flesh.

Regarding the stiff action on my 460, this knife has been my daily carry folder for a few months and it will not loosen up. In fact I called Lightfoot soon after I received the knife regarding the stiff action and he told me NOT to touch the pivot pin and make no attempt to adjust (loosen) the action. I was told that the knife was tuned this way just before shipment on purpose and that the folder was designed to accomodate a stiff action. He continued to tell me that his knives were not gentleman's folders that are made to be opened a million times while watching a video, but rather, they were knives made for full combat situations. The stiff action decreases accidental opening and closure and allows the knife to be as close as possible to a fixed blade knife. This made sense to me and after he described the nature of this new beast, I was satisfied.

But there is one last interesting note before I finish....a month ago, I tore major thumb muscles in my right hand while training. Basically rendering my right hand useless for 2-3 weeks. It is much better now, but far from 100%. Because of this injury, I had to replace the 460 with my D/A SOCOM for daily carry since I could not open any manual folder with my right hand. I could barely push the button on the SOCOM! Anyway, I got a CQC6 and I now carry that due to its extremely smooth action. I would carry my Lightfoot, but it is still too stiff for my thumb! I tried loosening the action once but Lightfoot was right...the knife just didn't perform up to par when I made this adjustment. So alas, the 460 (at least my particular model) will always remain a stiff actioned knife.

[This message has been edited by Ronald Reagan (edited 07 October 1999).]
 

Les has some excellent points.

I admit that I have an Emerson on order because it is an Emerson. I like the look of his knives.

Again, the big concern for me is not how long Emerson will take but rather that he keeps increasing the wait. If he says four years, that is fine. If he says four years and stretches it to eight, that is not good. My order went from a two year wait to a three year wait to a four year wait.

The fact that Emerson has SO MANY knives on backorder indicates to me that he will run very late on his orders. In my opinion, he should quote more realistic delivery times and/or he should stop taking orders. I hope to see him at Blade Show West on Friday and I hope to be able to ask him about some of these things.

I have a knife on order with Greg. I should be getting it in a month. Greg does seem to be careful about being on time.
 
ROSANGHAL,

The post was just to help visualize knife ergonomics. As for cutting flesh. How many knife fights have you been in? Do you have extensive martial arts training with a knife?

I have been in one fight where my opponent had a knife. He lost. I had a 3 foot section of conduit pipe. He had no training, I had 5 years training in Kendo.

So, you need to consider blade geometry and what different grinds are good for. The grind on the left side lends itself to using the knife in a reverse grip.

Using this type of grip in a knife fight, predisposes you being very, very close to your opponent. So it is imparetive that you have extensive training. Not only in just handling the knife, but footwork, physics, Kinesiology,and incredible concentration.

Too many take the words of others who have never been in a knife fight or have never even had a knife pulled on them in a confrontation.

My best advice is do not kid yourself in either your ability or your opponents abilty with using a knife.

Generally, in a true knife fight, there are no winners.

Les
 
Hi again Mr. Robertson

To answer your question, "How many knife fights have I been in?" None, I have mangaged to talk my way out of almost every potential altercation that has crossed my path.

"Do I have extensive martial arts training with a knife?" I have had formal training and still continue training in all aspects of self-defense ranging from firearms, unarmed and yes knives. We even go into aftermath and tactics after the incident to how to avoid the incident all together. So I'd have to say yes to that question.

"Extensive training..." More than some less than others.

Good job on being able to handle an opponent with a knife. To survive any lethal confrontation is a very hard task indeed.

I agree in a knife fight that you are going to have to close the distance to be able to stop him from doing what he may want to do to you. But why would you want to if you can avoid the situation all together. Anyways,like you have shown there are other objects close at hand that can increase your odds of survival. In your situation you had the training and a contact weapon that allowed you a little more distance which all worked in your favor. What Im saying is a warrior or tactician will make due with what he's got. Like I put in the post I understand you first posting on the subject, but if put in a situation where I was only allowed to use an Emerson blade I will make it work (and like I said I'm am sure they will do the job I want them to do). The only thing I'd have to lose is my life, right?

Yes, a reverse grip knife fight does bring you in closer to your aggressor than I want to be, but again there are other tools to get you out of that. What is the firearm for? It is a remote control distance weapon. Alright I'm getting off the subject here...... but I got to stick to what I first posted on this topic. I will make it work and I know it will do it's job. And yes you gotta train and train a lot. No argument there Les.

Ross T.




[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited 10 October 1999).]
 
Ross,

As the saying goes, the best knife for a knife fight is the one you have in your hand when the fight starts.

More people are killed every year with the chef's knife found in your kitchen than any other knife.

While it was not designed for this purpose, it is in fact the knife most at hand when needed.

With this in mind, as you say, you can make due with the Emerson. But why make due with a knife that has a flawed blade design.

This is the point I do not understand. Greg's knife is not the perfect choice either. However, it is a better designed knife than the Emerson.

Les

 
Les and Ross:
Hey guys how about we agree to disagree.
As i own and use both Lightfoots and Emersons,they both have there good points and there bad and that is why i have both.To my liking i prefer the Emerson for the defensive side and the Lightfoot for utility and sometimes i carry both just for that reason(this is my personal preferance).Looks and feel of the Emerson is heads and shoulders above the Lightfoot but the Lightfoot is built like a tank.If someone can afford them,buy both or whichever you prefer for whatever reasons you have.Yes the wait is long for a custom from Ernie but sometimes that is the price of addmission.
My 2 cents worth.
 
Les

Your quote just restated what I was telling you. Make due with what you got. The best knife for a knife fight IS the one you have in your hand and if that isn't there you always have your hands. I don't see a disagreement here, Les.

Then your statement on kitchen knives just proves that if you have a knife in your hand and you need to use it and you do your part, it will achieve certain predictable and probably desired results. Even if it wasn't designed for THAT purpose. Are you now going to call all kitchen knives flawed?

Then you go as far as to say Emersons blade designs are flawed? Do they cut? I haven't seen or heard of anyone claim that Emersons blades will not cut. Will they cut through clothing and skin if need be?

A knife is a tool that is used to cut. Emersons blades do that, correct? So how can you say they are flawed. They will acheive the results if you do your work.

We can sit and type about how Greg's or Ernie's knives are better than each other but If a person is handed either and put in a nasty situation, I believe both blades will perform outstanding. All other factors are just personal preference or other immaterial points on the topic of self-defense.

I seriously doubt if someone is being strangled from behind, by a bad guy, and pulls out a Emerson or a Lightfoot or, heck, even a cheapy Pakastan blade and slices the badguy's thy they are going to say, "Geeze, now if I would have used that other knife I don't think I would have felt as much resistance slicing and dicing into his leg."

I will make due with an Emerson because that is most likely what I am going to have if I need a blade for defense. Why, the grip suits me just fine, I know for sure it cuts and cuts good. End of story..........well no not end of story, I need to know what to do with the blade or the thing is going to be useless to me. Don't rely on just the tool to do your stuff.

OK Ok Im rambling let me just give a readers digest version of some of the thoughts that poured out of my head while I was typing them out above.

1. Emersons designs aren't flawed. (Les, you may think they are but they do what they are designed to do: CUT)

2. I think, i really think you and i can agree that if given a tool, just about any tool a person with either the right training or enough fear of pain or death will make that tool work if they have a fighting chance.

3. Don't rely fully on your tools, do so on knowledge, training and your actions. Then the tools will do what they need to do (Unless they are nothing but junk) and I KNOW Emersons aren't junk. Because Les doesn't sell junk
smile.gif
I don't think you would disagree there Les???

Respectfully
Ross T.


 
Well,
I did Place my order for a CQC-6, and a CQC-8. Since Don G. posted that he spoke with Emerson, and said that they were not taking deposites, I thought what the hell. I put the order in and was told 4 years. Not a problem, I'm just going to start stashing cash and wait. It's only $.75 a day for 4 years. If I put back a dollar a day, that would be almost $1500. I could buy another custom w/ that! Anyway, it's good to hear that they are taking orders w/ no deposite. Way to go Ernie!

Brian H.
 
BH - I feel the same way you do. Ernie explained to me that he makes the knives in batches, not in the order of deposits. So, he might make 50 CQC-8's, then 40 CQC-7's, etc. Then, he takes those knives and fills the orders based on invoice number.

What I recommend to anyone that has a custom on order with Emerson is to touch base about every 9 months or so. Just give Mary a call and get an update as to how things are going. Sometimes things do slip through the cracks but I get the impression that they try to be fair and honest.
 
Don G- I hear you. Everyone makes mistakes, and no one can predict the future. I will be the first to admit, that I am ordering because of the name, and the popularity. I am sure that Ernie could have predicted that his company would consume so much of his time. It is just something that I want, and when that day comes, I will be a very happy man. I know that I originally said that I wasn't going to order, but minds do change, and I have put some thought into it. I like custom knives, and I have always wanted a custom Emerson. Everyone has their opinions, and I for one would like to be the owner of an emerson handmade. The wait only allows me to slowly save money towards the purchase, which hopefully in no more than 4 years, will be a very exciting day. Keep the responses coming. This has been my best thread yet! and hopefully it will help others in their decisions when buying custom knives.

Brian Huber
 
The question of lengthy waits on Emerson custom orders is an interesting one, but I'd like to ask it a slightly different way: Who has been waiting the longest? I'm still waiting on an order placed in June 1995. Anyone able to beat that?
 
I don't want to be a wet blanket, but you are never going to see your knife. Did it ever occur to you that the reason Emerson is no longer taking deposits is because he knows he will never fill your order? This way you go away happy (thinking you are going to get a knife in 5 or so years)and if you don't, you have nothing to lose.
I'm sure Emerson is making enough money off the production knife company and his related business (training, merchandise, etc.)that he no longer needs to nor desires to spend his time grindng blades.
Why not just buy one of his production knives? The only difference is being able to say you have a blade made by Emerson, and even then most of the work (parts, blanks, etc.) were probably made in the same shop as the production models. All he probably does is assemble and check the final product.
Also, it is ridiculous to wait 5 or more years and not be able to have the knife EXACTLY like you want it. After all, that is what really makes the diff. between the custom and production. What makes it worth the wait -- unless you think you can turn around and re-sell the knife (but odds are you aren't going to get one anyway). If you really want one your best bet is paying up and buying one from a dealer.
One of the "posters" has been waiting for 4 years. Four years ago Emerson was quoting 1 year wait on fixed blades and 2 years on folders --- and the orders and backlog just kept growing!! Unless you buy a production knife or buy from a dealer or third party (who probably bought the guy's knife who has been waiting 4 years from Emerson at a show)it ain't gonna happen!
 
I have to disagree with you on your statement about custom/handmade knives. I own several Emerson production knives and two handmade folders and of course there is a difference!

The production and handmade shops are two different shops and Emerson makes all the parts for the handmade knives himself. He does not cull them from production parts and put them together. How is this possible? There is no crossover between the two lines of his knives. Even the handle parts for his CQC7's are different, from the bolster, to the liner to the way the handle slabs are ground out.

Occasionally, there will be prototype/preproduction/limited edition pieces like the CQC7 preproduction or the new Ti-commanders which will have factory parts and an Emerson ground blades.

Emerson works on his handmade knives.

Even if these days you may not be able to get exactly what you want on your order Emerson handmades are all exquisite knives. Many other makers allow you to pick and choose and there are great makers out there. I own some of their knives and love them. However, My favourite handmades are Emerson's and I will take them as they come if I have to. The design surpasses an option such as handle colour or straight edge versus serrations in my mind.


Jason

I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not anyone will see their knife because this is a long and tired subject.
 
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