Plain edge or serrated?

D

Dennis Wright

Joined
Jan 19, 1999
Messages
842
I've been selling quite a few Odysseys lately and taking a lot of "flak" about the lack of Plain edges from the customers.

It seems that most of the people who come into my shop are looking for plain edge knives. However, Buck, along with many other manufacturers seem to have been concentrating on serrated and partially serrated knives lately.

Case in point: The Odyssey. It only comes in plain blade with the 420HC steel. All ATS34 blades are now p/s, yet I sold out of the plain ATS blades right away, when they had them and that leads me to the point of
this discussion.

Which type of blade do you prefer? I realize that Forumites are not really the bulk of the ordinary knife buyers and users, but you folks are the core of the heavy users and have, collectively, more knowledge than any other group out there. What do your non-knife-nut friends think?

Help me out. I'm looking for something to show the manufacturers and designers what the real world thinks about this issue.

If I just go by the customers in my store, 80% of the knives I carry would be plain edge. Is this a real world picture or just a fluke for this area?

Thanks, in advance for any input you might have.

Dennis

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Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
La Mesa, Kalifornica
wrightknife@ixpres.com

 
I wasn't around when BF did the survey linked below, but I would like to cast my vote for PLAIN EDGE on single blades.


What edge type do you prefer?

My daily carry is a CrossLock Double blade. I like the drop point plain edge with the sheepsfoot serrated.

The Odyssey II with ATS-34 and CF handles has to be one of Buck's best folder designs, I wish it came in plain edge. When buck makes the Odyssey with a plain edge ATS-34 or BG-42 blade I'll buy one. Until then I'm trying to decide if the Odyssey I HCS is worth it. How does 420HC compare to ATS-34 and why doesn't Buck use higher grades of steel in most of its designs.

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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb

[This message has been edited by David Williams (edited 16 August 1999).]
 
Dennis,
I agree that plain or straight edge blades are preferred. A major reason could be the
fact that many are intimidated or in my case
are put off with the time it takes to sharpen a serrated blade. I am now carrying the brand new Odyssey carbon fiber with the partially serrated blade and I have decided that I will probably use the straight edge
90-95% of the time. So, in my view, I will
probably only rarely have to take the time to touch up each serration. Does this make
sense? I cannot see myself ever choosing a
all serrated blade as a using knife.
I suppose if my consistent need was for a
serrated blade, my opinion would be different.
Larry
 
The only type of knife I ever buy with serrations are bread knives. I want a knife to make a clean cut. If I wanted to saw something I would buy a saw! I detest the very sight of serrations. They remind me of decades of cheap kitchen knives with serrations to hide how bad the steel is and how dull the knife is basically.

Serrated knives are a royal pain to sharpen therefore they tend to be dull. When I was in college I earned money going door-to-door sharpening knives. I carried round hones, conical grinder bits, steel rods and silicon carbide Wet Or Dry paper to work on serrated knives. I could always make a customer happy, but I never made myself happy with the edges. Modern multi-patterned serrations are even worse--gee, just pick one!

I recently got a second-hand set of Spyderco kitchen knives made from MBS-26 alloy. Excellent steel and I put a true straight razor edge on the two plain edged members of the set. The one serrated knife just makes me want to cry for the waste of good steel. Using special hones and Wet Or Dry paper I've gotten it back to near factory sharpness, but some of the teeth are damaged and it isn't worth the trouble to fix them. After all, it's just a bread knife.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 26 July 1999).]
 
I prefer a half serrated knife myself, but I guess I can see why a persom wants a plain blade.
 
I had the shop create a BG-42 Lightning Mod#175 with straight edge. I agree with those that like a straight edge. I must admit that I took a crosslock double blade on a bear hunt and ended up helping a guy quarter a large boar to pack out of a valley. The serrated edge came in real handy for getting through joints etc.

The comment on 420HC steel. All the current popular steels have different performance characteristics. BG-42, ATS-34, 440C...You always balance corrosion, ductility and edge retention. Steels should be chosen based on the use and the environment the knife will see.

I have had discussions with Sal Glesser at Spyderco and recently facilitated a planning meeting for the American Cutlery Mfg. Association where we discussed trying to standardize industry testing of steel performance. There is an upcoming ACMA technical seminar which will deal with metallurgy. We will see where this goes but rest assured the industry is very interested.

This would definitely be worth a thread or two Jeff.

420HC is a solid choice for an outdoor user knife. The edge retention does not match BG-42 and ATS-34 but it beats them both hands down on corrosion resistance.



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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
I used to come down solidly on the full serration side. Over time I moved to favoring combos and now I lean towards plainedge 90% of the time, but also have a few full serrated edges around for specific chores, such as the circumstance Mr Buck related above. I have a combo Odyssey that is very nice, but I would replace it in a second with a plain edge if I could. I was bummed when I saw that the new version with the carbon fiber etc, only came in combo anf full serrations. I keep a Spyderco Harpy at work to cut various hose materials and similar stuff, but for all other cutting chores, plain edge rules. By the way, a BG42 plain edge Odyssey with carbon fiber scales has lodged itself in my minds eye, sigh.

[This message has been edited by Brian Lavin (edited 26 July 1999).]
 
I prefer plain edge, and have a few serrated edges. But I despise the partially-serrated format. I feel it is the worst of both worlds. Instead of having one 3.5" blade, with partially-serrated you end up with a 2" plain blade and a 1.5" serrated blade, due to the fact that the serrations are out of line with the plain edge. Partially-serrated is a reasonable format for those doing nothing but little jobs. I feel people doing bigger jobs are much better served by either:

- Carry 2 knives, a large plain blade and small fully-serrated

- Use the performance edge I've been advocating for years... Take most of the edge to your normal fine grit, but rough-up the back portion of the edge to a coarser grit. This will get you partially-serrated type performance on many materials.

I've been hoping the partially-serrated format was just a fad, but it shows no signs of dying out at all, in fact it may be getting stronger if anything. Sigh.


Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
...and another vote for Serrated. Oh wait, I voted. Well, I know someone who has ALL (not one plain blade) serated knives, so I'll vote for him. I think partial seration is always good, best of both worlds. That's me anyways...
 
I carry both a plain blade (razor sharp) and a full serrated blade. I have yet to find the knife with a successful marriage of the two. The Buck Odyssey comes close but the serrated part is the devil to sharpen.
 
Cinqueda --

One thing about serrations is that they're typically easy to re-sharpen (not counting Cold Steel's), because they're chisel-ground in and the steel is very thin. Have you tried the Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker on your serrations?

Joe
 
No, I have not tried the Spyderco. I have
Lansky's tools for serrated blades. What
makes the Spyderco better?
 
I forgot to mention that the Lansky serrated tools are not the diamond hones. I do not think Lansky makes a diamond serrated tool? I find Buck's steel resistant (barring infinite patience) to sharpening with other than diamond tools. It's a good thing. Once sharp they stay that way for a long time. Is the Spyderco a diamond tool?
 
I like to have a choice. I think the Odyssey and other "tactical" knives ought to come in plain, serrated and, if the budget allows, combo. Atleast for the first run.

I was recently disappointed to hear that the Odyssey wasn`t available in G-10 with an ATS-34 plain blade. Evidently I`m not alone!
 
The Spyderco sharpner is a ceramic tool, designed primarily for sharpening serrated blades. IMO it is the best tool for that job.

You're right in that lansky doesn't make a diamond serrated sharpner, but their medium and fine triangular stones do a good job if you don't let the blade get too dull.

DMT and EZ-Lap make diamond tapered rods for serrated blades. Probably other brands have them too but these are the ones that I am the most familiar with.

Steve, I agree with you. From the business end, it just makes sense to have something for everyone. Not everyone hates 50/50 blades or fully serrated ones. However, I really don't understand the aversion by Buck and others to the plain edge, especially in their "practical/tactical" models.

As I said earlier, and as this thread seems to verify, as well as my sales and other surveys have borne out, the plain edge is king out there.

That is actually what I am trying to show with this thread. It seems to have done that, to a certain extent. I guess we will just have to wait and see if anybody is listening. My customers want plain edges.



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Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
(Buy a gun....Piss off a liberal!)
La Mesa, Kalifornica
wrightknife@ixpres.com

 
I've just got to vote here! A plain edge is the only way to go. I've been in shops and admired knives but left them there because they had partial serrations. If I wanted serrations I'd buy a fully serrated knife, or buy a multi-blade with one serrated blade.
smile.gif
smile.gif
 
Interesting topic...One Ive thought of myself quite a bit, It seems that when all my non-knife nut friends see any of my knives or asked when given a choice which style they perfer while side by side 95% go for the serrated one's. Which are the ones I also went with when I started collecting, just liked the look of them mostly, nowadays I lean towards plain edge.
smile.gif


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~Keith~



[This message has been edited by Kdarmy (edited 05 August 1999).]
 
Plain edge is my favorite type, if I have to have just one knife. I routinely carry a serrated knife in addition to one or more plain edges, but never a combo-edge. I agree with Joe Talmadge on this one. Why sacrifice half of a perfectly good blade? Especially if the blade is relatively short to begin with.

I have only owned one combo-edge knife, a Benchmade 812sbt (Mini AFCK), and I found that the serrations got in the way more often than they helped me. It happens that the part of the blade closest to the handle is the part I wanted to use when sharpening pencils, whittling sticks, etc., where a plain edge was called for, or if I was cutting with the plain portion of the blade, as when opening a letter or cutting sheets of paper, the serrated portion would snag on the material and mess up the cut or hang up the blade altogether. Eventually, I got so mad at the combo-edge knife that I gave it to my brother.

Two separate blades--one serrated and one plain--, or even a single plain-edged blade is far better, in my opinion, than a combo-edge.

I've made this analogy before: Suppose you like milk and you like water. Take a quart of each and mix them together. The resulting mixture might be drinkable in a pinch, but would you order it in a restaurant? If I were limited to just one quart of fluid, in any combination, I would take either a full quart of water, or perhaps--far less likely--a full quart of milk, or maybe a pint of each if I could keep them in two separate containers. By putting the two together in the same container, you end up with diluted milk or contaminated water. By the same token, a partially serrated edge is basically an impaired plain edge, or a marginally effective serrated edge, but definitely not "the best of both worlds".

Some people like MacDonalds' "special sauce". Some people don't particularly like it, but they eat it anyway because that's the only way you can get a Big Mac. Personally, I prefer a plain Arby's Roast Beef sandwich with nothing on it.

Most of the time.

David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
"Never carry a knife shorter than your schnoz."
 
If seems like when people try and justify serrations they talk about cutting rope. I've generally found a sharp smooth blade to be adequate for rope (and I really don't cut rope all that often). In a hunting knife I might have occasion to work on cartilage around a joint. Having an extra blade with serrations nearer the point on the 'belly' might be useful, but I wouldn't want it on my only blade. What I got for some of that type of work is a Buck Carpet/Linoleum knife. The hawkbill can really attack a joint.
 
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