Planning needed things for the first knife, input welcome!

S

ShirraWhitefur

Joined
Jan 19, 2013
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I'm settling in to work on making my first knife via stock removal, and I'm plotting out what I need to -just- get started. Since the only power tool I have is a hand drill, I expect to be doing almost everything 'the slow way'... which is also a good way for me to find out if I can bring the right mindset to do it, or if I'll end up walking away, since filing and hacksaw work is going to be grueling on my weak self. :) In fact, the first bits I plan to get are -just- for making the blank and basic beveling, so if I end up going, "Nope, this is not for me!", I haven't sunk a bunch into stuff I'm unlikely to use later. (See also, a whole bunch of sandpaper grits.)

I've been poking around the forum, reading posts, most notably..
Stacy's How to instructions for making a knife
Stacy's Ten Tools for getting started

And I've got a nice small list of what I think I will need.

Piece of steel, known type. I'm going to first try a local Maker's Co-Op and see if I can't get a piece around 1" x 8" x 1/8 to 1/4 thick (preferably in the 1/8 to 3/16"), and failing that, I'll check local shops that deal with leaf springs. If I can't find out what the steel is for sure, and thusly know what I need to know for heat treat (even if I'm most likely just sending it out for it on the first ones), I'll instead go through the links for knife steel vendors and order something (Likely O-1, or 440C, due to efficient price.). I may not expect my first knife to be great, -but- if I do turn out something passable, I want it to be a usable tool when I'm done with it, not something I'm afraid I'll break easily.

Then grab up at the local stores..
Dewalt 12 in. 5-in-1 Hacksaw, DWHT20547L
Dewalt 12 in. 18, 24 and 32-TPI Bi-Metal Hacksaw Blade (3-Pack), DWHT20558
Nicholson - 10 in. Bastard-Cut Mill File, 21839N
10" second cut file ( Can't locate at any local hardware store )
I saw mention of this file, but.. can't find it anywhere not online-only.. and can't find mention of it further in Stacy's instruction set beyond something to pick up. So I admit to wondering if it's really necessary to start with.

I'm going to hold off on picking up the sandpaper collection till I get the sawing / filing done simply because.. if I can get the filing done, I have no doubt I can get through sanding. But -that- will be the big test for my resolve. :)
The other thing I'm thinking of picking up is some cobalt bits for my drill. Big question is what sizes, considering I was just pointed out to the idea of drilling around the exterior to reduce the amount of sawing I might have to do. I'm not sure if that's the best starter plan though, if I should -just- saw instead, and just pick up a bit for my pin holes. At $3-$7 per bit, their cost adds up quick for someone lacking in income.

Other things that I've already pondered is the flat surface for leveling, and I've got some polished (but admittedly thin at 3/8") granite tiles for that which will hopefully do just fine.
Going to be trying to borrow someone's bench vise since they're not using it anymore, and I've got several heavy duty bar clamps and access to good C-clamps and 'okay' ratcheting plastic clamps
I've got bits of scrap stud lumber and leather for making sanding blocks and padding clamps, and some T-squares for double-checking my flat/right angle for drilling, and ultrafine sharpee for trying to mark my center on the blade.
I still have to check around for a nice ball peen hammer. Miiight have one of those.
I've stumbled onto D Comeau Custom Knive's blogsite with it's ton of ready to use knife templates, so that part's just a matter of picking one that looks like it should be relatively simple, but fit what I'd like to have as a knife.

Aside from the later sandpaper, pins, handle material, and epoxy.. am I missing any 'must haves' for the first hand-done knife, since as said before, I'll probably have to send out for a heat treat? (Apartment/townhouse reallly limits my options.) I've got the feeling a couple other file shapes are on the list of things I should get.

In any case, thanks for the time, and all the helpful resources!

- David Hoogeveen
 
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You're starting your first knife and wrote your first book. :D, Just joking with you. Welcome! I'm just getting into it also. Have you checked out the Sticky Threads post? I'd say you'll need a half round file too if you want to contour anything. Lots of info and experience available amung the forum, not much on this side of the iPad though.
 
Your best sources for many of the things you will need are the knife supply companies. They carry files, steel, and all the materials.

Best source for the sandpaper is online. You can buy it by the sheet from an Auto Parts store or hardware store, but you can buy twice as much online for the same money. Super Grit is a good supplier. Many makers swear by Rhino-wet papers ( the Red series, IIRC). The 3M or Norton black SC paper ( Wet-or-Dry type) is good for most work.

The stickys has a list of suppliers, but a couple of the regular suppliers are USA Knifemakers supply, Jantz, Texas Knife supply, and K&G supply

When you get the hacksaw frame, make sure you get a "High Tension" type. The difference is amazing.

A second cut file is smoother than a bastard, and a bit coarser than a finishing file. In many hardware stores, it might be called "fine". If you order files from one of the suppliers above, take a look at the "Magicut" files. They are really good for metal removal.

Also, consider getting a whole bar of steel from Aldo at New jersey Steel Baron. You will pay less for it, and will have enough for four or five knives. I am willing to bet you will want to make more than one. Either use a basic carbon steel, like 1084, O-1, 15N20, or go stainless and pick 440-C, AEBL, or CPM-154. Get a bar 1.25" wide by 1/8" thick. Even with shipping, you will have less than $10 a knife in the steel. BTW, no need to get it ground decarb-free unless you want to. You are going to file and sand all that away.
 
As for writing a book.. Well, the most common complaint I see in forums when people go looking for input is the utter -lack- of information given. I tend to be the opposite thusly. :)

As for the files... that's exactly what I wanted to know, what I needed it for.

Hmm. I was under the impression that the model I was looking at in hacksaws was high tension, but I'll double check more thoroughly -just- to be absolutely sure. I'd ended up wandering along through some contractor's forums, so time to poke there again. As much as I'm absolutely chomping at the bit to get started on a first knife, getting the absolutely right tools for the job to start with is going to make things go smoothest. I'd rather all issues with the work come down to me and only me, and -not- having picked out the wrong tool!

I think I will follow the suggestion and order steel, even if it means having to wait for another month to afford things.. if I can't get flat out free stuff today in the right size, in a known metal.. and in 1/8". As noted, I'm kinda expecting to ruin my first knife attempt (Which means it'll be a wonderful happy surprise when/if I don't!), so I'm a bit less concerned about it. But the later ones, definitely will be ordered from one of the supplier companies listed.

In semi-related, I've already located two professional heat treating places that do knives, and while one is quite far off but in state.. the other one is only a ten minute drive away. Yay! That takes care of that worry.

Thank you very much for getting back to me so soon.

- David Hoogeveen
 
Its nice "If rare" to see a new maker as prepared as you are.

SALES CONTENT REMOVED

Ben Greenberg
Greenberg Woods
 
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Well, according to DeWalt, the hacksaw in question is a high tension, up to 330 lbs.. Probably get that today or tomorrow locally, and pick up the half-round bastard later, once I'm ready to start doing the finer inward curves. Heck, I'm going to have to wait, because the initial outlay is going to be quite a bit more than hoped for initially. (Still worth trying this though!)
Pretty much everything online will come from Jantz supply/knifemaking, because while I have no doubt that the New Jersey Steel and Super Grit put out the awesome stuff.. the extra shipping for dealing with separate places makes it just not feasible if I want to be able to afford starting in the next two months. So far, I'm looking at a 1.5" x 1/8" x 18" 154-CM bar, in the non-"nice" finish because, as you said.. I'm going at it with a file and sandpaper anyways. 220/320/400/600 grit in Jantz wet/dry non-branded type, 10" magicut file, file handle (which I might be able to skip on, but for my soft, weak hands.. it just seems a good idea?), 1/8" brass handle pins, and their coarse, very fine, and ultra fine polishing pads.
I honestly am not sure how one picks a 'good' size for handle pins, but the matching the size to the thickness of the metal itself didn't seem like a terrible plan, especially on a knife likely to end up with a 3" blade.
I'm figuring this will cover -most- of the things I cannot readily grab at the local hardware store later (barring the decent wood and sealant), for this first knife.. and should I continue making knives, then I can take advantage of ordering stuff from each of the different online specialty supplies for more long term savings and quality. Still.. want to get a final eyeballing of that list before I throw money at it, since.. well, with those plus my hacksaw, I'm looking at spending about twice what I'm comfortable with already. But darnit, I want to make my own knife. :)

- David Hoogeveen
 
Allright. Well, yer' not getting sketches to start with, so much as an already made template, courtesy of D Comeau Custom Knives, since they're open for people to use. Because I know full well that I -don't- know enough to design a great knife to begin with, especially since almost all the knives I've had experience with are realllly crappy cheapo knives.

Still, after working at it, I've narrowed down to three designs that interest me most.
DH13
DS3
DH52
Each of 'em have have some curve to the handle, and a design that I feel will help keep my fingers where they belong and -off- the knife blade in case of my grip slipping. Because knife fumbling happens. I'm not sure which of the three will be the easiest to make the blade on though, particularly in beveling it correctly and then sharpening. I expect the DH13 would liikely be the easiest one, as well as easiest in handle design, but not sure.

As for my plan, assuming 'how do I plan to make it'.. Plan is to print out a piece to the right size to give me a 3" blade (to keep me solidly under any variant of the fun knife laws in various parts of michigan for an openly carried knife), grab some scrap wood and glue it down. Saw cut that out, then file down to size, then drill it.
Get the steel bar, measure it to the size of my knife +1/2", hacksaw that length off. Then go over it with the file a bit to take the scale off, then onto the granite with the sandpaper over it in a rough grit, and get it leveled out. Then the template goes onto that, gets clamped, because I'm not going to trust myself not to nudge things out of position, and marked onto the steel. Then on to clamping the steel and hacksawing the heck out of it to get a basic rough shape, playing it safe and expecting to do a lot more filing, rather than chancing an 'oops' that cuts into the planned knife shape. _Might_ change up the order and cut out the knife shape first, then level it down, but then I'd have to redraw things and hope I line things up a second time, which seems.. not great a plan for my first time!
Clamp and settle in for quite a bit of filing, to get things down to the basic outline and finished blank. Probably have to pick up the half round bastard to work in some of the handle shape, and a fresh needle file to replace some of the set I've used this past year in my chainmaille work.

I've got more video watching to do on filing technique for the bevels, though I -think- I've got the gist of it. But more videos and careful watching sure isn't going to do me any harm! May end up picking up a scriber, or may end up just marking with ultra-fine sharpy to get my mid-point line. Not entirely sure on that still.

As for further plans than that.. gotta plot on it, aside from 'get the rest of my supplies and prepare more'. If we weren't talking plan as in 'how to make' but instead long term goals of knife making? Eventually, maybe I'll be good enough to sell some. For now, it's a matter of making knives to satisfy myself, and give as gifts to some friends. :)

- David Hoogeveen
 
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