Plastic Rant

I forgot to say my SS Spydie Police was continually slipping out of my pocket when I sat reclined!
 
Like most things in life, there is a time and a place and a context for all things -- handle materials being no exception. The largest factor is simply personal preference; my father can't stand plastic handles, because he considers antyhing other than wood or metal to be "nontraditional" and is suspicious of plastic's durability (or lack thereof). I don't really care either way -- my most often-cited slogan when we get into those "what's better than what" threads is that There Are No Bad Knives.
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Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

 
I have to admit that I like natural materials better than man made materials. This is true, not only in knives, but in most everything else (I don't even used teflon coated cookware.) My favorite knives are handled with natural materials - ivory, mother of pearl, bone, stag, wood, various metals etc. But curiously, I just got back from my dresser where I had a few knives to choose from to put in my pocket today. The one I put in my pocket this morning was a Zytel-handled Boye BDS-15. Go figure. Ugly but practical.

Of the manmade materials I think I like micarta the best because it looks natural (something like buffalo horn if it's black micarta) and feels nice to me. I agree that Zytel and G-10 are ugly but they certainly are practical as Ron pointed out.

I'm showing at a gun show tommorrow and I guess I'd better carry something better than a Zytel folder. What do you think? My flat out Elishewitz custom Ares with pearl scales and lots of filework? Perhaps something more down-to-Earth like my red bone handled Spyderco Standard? Maybe my recently-acquired G-10 handled Al Mar S2K? The S2K is really nice. Maybe I should have it rehandled? Heck, I think I'll just strap on my Leatherman Wave. Take care.

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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
 
Give me jigged bone or wood or stag any day. I love those materials, even if they are not eco-friendly.
 
Hate the stuff too, but have respect for things such as carbon and kevlar. The uses for such aramid fibers are endless. You should see the things the bike industry makes out of carbon composite. But other plastic materials are pretty worthless in my eyes.
 
Originally posted by AR15fan:
I case noneone else has mentioned it, a polished steel knife handle is VERY slippery when wet.
Nothing fun about cutting you fingers to the bone becuase your knife got a little blood or water on it.
I would like to see those who advocate stainless steel handles(like the Spyderco Police)address this issue.
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I wasn't a big fan of steel handles until a mate bought me a Spyderco Police. I thought about the slip factor but haven't had any complaints. Since then I've picked up a couple other knives (skinning knife from the NT and an SAS Fighting Knife). I must also say that I've had a play with some of the non-stainless handled Spyderco's, in the shops, and don't think they're a patch on the stainless ones. Also, I've read comments on the weight (or lack there of) with the G-10, plastic etc but find that the police model opens more effectively.......

 
Personally, I really like zytel or MRN (?). When I see zytel I think high tech and economy rather than cheap. A zytel knife like the Spyderco Native is very sturdy and light, plus it does not slip easily like stainless steel. I have no problem with people who don't like zytel, that's why manufacturers and dealers carry a wide range of knives. I like metal knives of all kinds but I really don't like the way metal scratches so easily. The only thing I can recommend is to get a metal handled knife with a bead blasted finish like a Sebenza because the scratches don't look so bad on it, however, the new BM 940 and Kershaw Boa have very tough aluminum finishes that can take a pocket full of keys etc.
 
Being from Canada I must agree that metal can get very cold. It also tends to scratch fairly easily. I have many knives With G10 handles and I like them a lot. I also have a few with metal and see no real advantage in stength or weight. But that being said I do like some Titanium handled knives very much.
 
Originally posted by wampyr:
I wasn't a big fan of steel handles until a mate bought me a Spyderco Police. I thought about the slip factor but haven't had any complaints.
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This isnt a flame but have you actually subject the knife to an extreme test? Have you used it to defend yourself? Field dressed any big game in sub-freezing temperatures?
Stainless steel handles are fine for everyday chores. You will most likely never slip up the handle and cut yourself. But whats going to happen when the knife and your hand are covered with blood and your trying to stab that slippery handled knife through your attackers sternum?
Or the knife and your hand are covered with blood and your trying to quarter an elk in freezing rain at night?

I guess a good test would be to coat the knife and your hand with cooking oil and then go try to stab the knife through a car tire without cutting your hand.
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[This message has been edited by AR15fan (edited 10-13-2000).]
 
Hey everyone, thanks for all the posts!

<grinning> My first topic and it turns HOT!

Here's a couple points-

First- other than the steel handles, I think that the weight issue is blown way out of proportion. We're talking fractions of ounces. The difference between my CRKT Grey Ghost and the Zytel version is one tenth of an ounce.

Second- I prefer anodized aluminum, light and scratch resistant, tough enough for most general uses...and it warms almost instantly to the touch. As to the slip factor, it does vary, my CRKT M-16 is pretty smooth, but I have a BM855 that has a very aggressive (almost like sandpaper) anodized coating. Also, most aluminum handles are machined for better grip.

Bonus point- My dislike of plastic also extends to blade coatings, even though not all of them are plastic!

Maybe if I engaged in more cold weather, life threatening, close quarter, evisceration...my thoughts would be different.
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Thanks again for all the comments.
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Steve-O
 
Hickey, just a side-note: carbon and kevlar are great for load-bearing structures, but not for wear. Carbon-fiber-handled knives scratch up much easier than G10. Of course, G10 would make a lousy bike frame.

Anyway, on the subject at hand, I prefer natural materials for some knives, but synthetics for others. If a knife is going to have to take lots of abuse, I would rather a synthetic (G10 or Micarta) handle, as they stand up to abuse better than most, if not all, natural materials. For a nicer knife, I would prefer natural materials, or at least CF or Micarta if it is going to be synthetic, since they have more character than G10.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 10-13-2000).]
 
Regarding Zytel,

1. To support Ron@SOG's argument of the virtue of Zytel: Remember when you were (are) a kid with your BMX bicycle with Zytel mag wheels? You abused the heck out of that bike; or at least I did. The pedals broke off, the forks bent,...but the Zytel wheels never gave! I sometimes think G-10 is overkill.

2. There's something about the efficient simplicity of a Zytel folder that gets lost when you graduate to knives made of more expensive materials.

3. The cheap cost of a Zytel handled knife makes it more bearable if you should lose your knife -- gosh forbid! It also makes quality knives accessible to the average "Joe" who doesn't want/need to spend $100+ on a knife.

...But I still prefer G-10 and titanium just because you guys say I should (peer pressure)!
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I really like zytel alot and I think its very tough and it does feel "warmer" than metal.
I also love the old-style yellow knives from Case and Camillus (I have a Camillus yellow-jacket trapper). The yellow scales even look better when the knive's carbon-steel turns darker.
There is one metal-scaled knife I love: the Victorinox Pioneer! After buying it, I don't want to carry the plastic-scaled SAKs anymore.
 
I have knives of both camps though I prefer natural material for it's beauty. Regards the slippery Spyderco Police handles, I improved the grip somewhat by sand blasting it at work (coarse sand). That helped it out alot. I certainly had to do a lot of flushing out in an ultrasonic tank before cycling the blade though!
 
Originally posted by AR15fan:

This isnt a flame but have you actually subject the knife to an extreme test? Have you used it to defend yourself? Field dressed any big game in sub-freezing temperatures?
Stainless steel handles are fine for everyday chores. You will most likely never slip up the handle and cut yourself. But whats going to happen when the knife and your hand are covered with blood and your trying to stab that slippery handled knife through your attackers sternum?
Or the knife and your hand are covered with blood and your trying to quarter an elk in freezing rain at night?


Firstly.....I accept that your comments are not a flame and can see how your uses and mine may differ. I'm from Australia and live in the city. Basically I can't legally carry a knife around the place unless I'm going camping or out bush or some other situation where I can carry a knife as a tool. Australian laws sound very much like those in the UK and you can only really get away with a SAK. I do use my knives but am unable to have them as a daily carry. Therefore I have not (and expect will not) use them when dealing with self defense (unless from a koala when bush walking). The next Q was the weather test.....Where I live vary rarely gets below 8 degrees C or above 40 oC. Therefore the most I've dealt with is rain & haven't found that to be too much of a problem........
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I have some knives with all kinds of handle material and find that which one is used depends on what type of work its going do do.I will have to agree for looks on my fixed blade knives I like the natural material better. On some of the folders the I have a mixture of material also and again it depends on what I want the knife for. I do not have any metal handeled knives and don't think I will get any for the simple reason that my brothers SS Police spyderco model is slippery, I don't find this to be so with most other materials besides metal sorry just my thoughts and taste. Happy knifeing.
 
For looks, natural materials can't be beat (except perhaps by Darrel Ralph). G-10 & Zytel will never look as good as bone, wood, stag, pearl, etc. For durability, most natural materials can be beat by synthetic ones.

But for use, I prefer G-10. The stuff is completely indestructible. No matter what I do to it, it looks the same. It provides a good grip under any condition I have ever seen. And for strength, all of my G-10 knives have full SS or Ti liners, so no problem there.

I agree somewhat with not trusting plastic, just because it's plastic, but none of my Zytel knives have ever broke or bent. I remember someone did a lock strength test on a Zytel Endura, and the steel blade broke before the lock or handles. So I think, for most uses at least, Zytel is plenty strong, and it's just a prejudice that many of us have against "plastic." BTW, I don't consider G-10 to be a kind of plastic. For economic reasons, Zytel can be a good choice for many.

And I don't like Kraton.

You can't go wrong with metal, except for problems with slipping, temperature, and rust. The only metal handled knife I ever carry is a BM 940, which has anodized aluminum handles. And I'm careful with that knife because I don't want to scratch the handles. It's really too pretty for me to beat up. But I never worry with my G-10 knives.

Ultimately, of course, it's a personal aesthetic choice. Modern manufacturers make excellent knives with all types of handles, and no matter which you get, it is unlikely to fail except under the most difficult and rare conditions.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
Rubber rant. I'm not a big fan of "rubber" handled knives. But I do like Micarta. Very tough stuff. Plastic like delrin I don't particularly care for but I have a lot of slipjoint knives with it. But they will crack and break like bone. And I love the looks of Micarta. I like bone and wood too but micarta is tougher. For a field knife, I doubt anything beats micarta.

I like the Ti handle on my Sebenza but heavier metal handles on folders feel like a rock in my pocket. A good metal handle, though, should be durable.



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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
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