Recommendation? Plates and Stones

HowAmI

HowAmI

Joined
Aug 5, 2016
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So I'm not really a fan of my KME due to many reasons and would like to start doing freehand sharpening. What I'm asking is what plates or stones should I be using? Naniwa Chosera, Shapton Pro, Shapton Glass, DMT Dia-Sharp, and DMT Duo-Sharp are some of the stones and plates I have been looking at.

I will be using these on modern folders along with kitchen knives. Steels will vary from Blue and White Steels to Maxamet, M390, S30V, D2 Variants, Etc.

What do you guys recommend? What do you not recommend? Why?
 
HowAmI said:
What do you guys recommend? What do you not recommend? Why?
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I recommend an Edge Pro Apex with Shapton Glass stones.
I don't recommend a lot of hand sharpening. Learn how, get good at it. Just so you can say you can and if you are out in the bush (meaning at work without your Edge Pro) and need to touch up some knife or other on a rock you can. And you do learn how the guided systems should work from learning hand sharpening.

buuuuuuuuut better results with a guided system.
PS: the last knife I sharpened was BY HAND on diamond plates. It was/is hair whittling. It would have come out even better, prettier, sharper and would have taken less time on the Edge Pro. I just don't have diamond plates for it.
yah . . . EP
 
I am faster by freehand to achieve a working sharpness. This does not include the time it takes to set up, take down and clean up, else the time advantage of a freehand session increases (compared to my WE 130 which was recently gifted away). I am partial to the Sigma Power Select II series of stones and the Atoma line of diamond plates. Why SPS II? It is a low maintenance stone. No need to concern myself with drying rates or issues with permasoaking. I also wanted to verify the hype of them being the fastest cutting waterstones available. Being lazy in general, the less time I spend sharpening, the better. So long as slurry is produced, I have found that they do cut as fast or faster than other stones in its micron range. Though the reality is that I can achieve similar, if not the same results in the same timeframe by increasing both scrubbing rate and pressure with other stones. Why Atoma? I prefer its feedback over DMT. I also find Atoma plates to carry a comparatively superior fit and finish. If going DMT, I strongly prefer the Dia-Sharp continuous surface offering. Tip: Sharpen with water on diamond media to limit airborne diamond dust.
 
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adamlau said:
I am faster by freehand to achieve a working sharpness. This does not include the time it takes to set up, take down and clean up, else the time advantage of a freehand session increases (compared to my WE 130 which was recently gifted away). I am partial to the Sigma Power Select II series of stones and the Atoma line of diamond plates. Why SPS II? It is a low maintenance stone. No need to concern myself with drying rates or issues with permasoaking. I also wanted to verify the hype of them being the fastest cutting waterstones available. Being lazy in general, the less time I spend sharpening, the better. So long as slurry is produced, I have found that they do cut as fast or faster than other stones in its micron range. Though the reality is that I can achieve similar, if not the same results in the same timeframe by increasing both scrubbing rate and pressure with other stones. Why Atoma? I prefer its feedback over DMT. I also find Atoma plates to carry a comparatively superior fit and finish. If going DMT, I strongly prefer the Dia-Sharp continuous surface offering. Tip: Sharpen with water on diamond media to limit airborne diamond dust.
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Thanks. Would you recommend using diamond in the beginning to help get the profile that you want and then use a synthetic or glass tones at the later grit ranges for the final edge?
 
Wowbagger said:
I recommend an Edge Pro Apex with Shapton Glass stones.
I don't recommend a lot of hand sharpening. Learn how, get good at it. Just so you can say you can and if you are out in the bush (meaning at work without your Edge Pro) and need to touch up some knife or other on a rock you can. And you do learn how the guided systems should work from learning hand sharpening.

buuuuuuuuut better results with a guided system.
PS: the last knife I sharpened was BY HAND on diamond plates. It was/is hair whittling. It would have come out even better, prettier, sharper and would have taken less time on the Edge Pro. I just don't have diamond plates for it.
yah . . . EP
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I've never been a fan of the Edge Pro. Nothing about it fits what I would want even the Professional Models aren't for me, if I were to get another guided system it would have to be a Wicked Edge Gen Pro 3 or a Tormek.
 
HowAmI said:
Thanks. Would you recommend using diamond in the beginning to help get the profile that you want and then use a synthetic or glass tones at the later grit ranges for the final edge?
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An xc DMT is a good tool to have around. Ultimately, dedicated freehanders will find medium grit and finishing stones easier to pin down than coarse ones. I am always interested in a new coarse stone, medium and polishing grade - not so much.
 
HeavyHanded said:
An xc DMT is a good tool to have around. Ultimately, dedicated freehanders will find medium grit and finishing stones easier to pin down than coarse ones. I am always interested in a new coarse stone, medium and polishing grade - not so much.
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Interesting. Thanks. I think I'd have the coarser stones but would only use them if I learned to re-profile, fix an edge, or thin an edge down. I've heard you should stay with Medium/Fine because people take too much off on the coarser grit stones.
 
The coarse stone is the foundational building block of a sharpening regiment. All my knives get taken to a 280-400 grit stone when dull. All other knives get taken to a coarse stone to start. When a knife is dull a coarse stone saves you a lot of time. I don't think they remove too much metal. I don't always take them to the coarse on a known knife, to sharpen. DM
 
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HowAmI said:
Thanks. Would you recommend using diamond in the beginning to help get the profile that you want and then use a synthetic or glass tones at the later grit ranges for the final edge?
Click to expand...
You can follow your prescribed method, use stones up front and finish by shaping carbides on diamond, or use stones or diamond exclusively. It is up to you to decide which method you prefer for the steel you are attempting to sharpen. I use stones exclusively, no matter the carbide content of a steel. Not a fan of diamond dust nor am I a fan of maintaining loaded diamond plates. I reserve the Atoma for flattening and for the development of slurry only. Regarding coarse stones, every blade I work on sees 60-70 micron media upon initial sharpening to reset the edge it to my preferred ~12 dps (my hands fall into that position most naturally).
 
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David Martin said:
The coarse stone is the foundational building block of a sharpening regiment. All my knives get taken to a 280-400 grit stone when dull. All other knives get taken to a coarse stone to start. When a knife is dull a coarse stone saves you a lot of time. I don't think they remove too much metal. I don't always take them to the coarse on a known knife, to sharpen. DM
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Thanks for the information. When you're doing freehand what do you use and enjoy using?
 
adamlau said:
You can follow your prescribed method, use stones up front and finish by shaping carbides on diamond, or use stones or diamond exclusively. It is up to you to decide which method you prefer for the steel you are attempting to sharpen. I use stones exclusively, no matter the carbide content of a steel. Not a fan of diamond dust nor am I a fan of maintaining loaded diamond plates. I reserve the Atoma for flattening and for the development of slurry only. Regarding coarse stones, every blade I work on sees 60-70 micron media upon initial sharpening to reset the edge it to my preferred ~12 dps (my hands fall into that position most naturally).
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Thanks.
 
If you are going to use the same stones/plates on everything I'd just go ahead and get some diamond plates.

With DMT it is my belief they do a better plating job on their interrupted surface plates than the continuous ones.

I'd want an XC, C, F, EEF in the largest size you can afford.

If you aren't going to be doing finer edges, a Norton Crystalon stone works very well on all steels including high Vanadium ones. It is only at the brighter finishes you will need to have diamond or CbN.

The most important consideration for freehand is having a bunch of cheap knives to practice on. Stone selection is massive.

The sharpening block I make (Washboard - link through signature below) can tackle all types of steel as well due to the addition of diamond in the honing compound. It has the added advantage of delivering a tactile feedback boost that is very helpful when learning freehand and for holding angles well at higher levels of finish when feedback traditionally begins to fall way off.
 
How, when sharpening professional food grade cutlery (meat cutters and deli. knives). These are usually of 420 steel. I take these to a Norton coarse India on to the fine India and clean the burr off on that stone. With little or no stropping. If the knives are higher grade steel, 440C & up. I take it to a Norton JUM-3, coarse then fine. And depending on their use, finish on the stone or strop. Most of these knives will be steeled for maintenance so I leave them at a medium grit. DM
 
That Reeves knife is made of s35vn steel. It can be easily sharpened on a Norton SiC fine stone & stropped to your liking. DM
 
David Martin said:
How, when sharpening professional food grade cutlery (meat cutters and deli. knives). These are usually of 420 steel. I take these to a Norton coarse India on to the fine India and clean the burr off on that stone. With little or no stropping. If the knives are higher grade steel, 440C & up. I take it to a Norton JUM-3, coarse then fine. And depending on their use, finish on the stone or strop. Most of these knives will be steeled for maintenance so I leave them at a medium grit. DM
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Funny you mention the Meat Cutting and Deli knives as I work in a old family owned meat market and restaurant, although their knives are beyond repair after many years of using pull throughs :poop:. I'd probably never bother to touch their knives as I'd be ridiculed for actually having a knife with a proper edge on it. Thanks for the help. :thumbsup:
 
HeavyHanded said:
If you are going to use the same stones/plates on everything I'd just go ahead and get some diamond plates.

With DMT it is my belief they do a better plating job on their interrupted surface plates than the continuous ones.

I'd want an XC, C, F, EEF in the largest size you can afford.

If you aren't going to be doing finer edges, a Norton Crystalon stone works very well on all steels including high Vanadium ones. It is only at the brighter finishes you will need to have diamond or CbN.

The most important consideration for freehand is having a bunch of cheap knives to practice on. Stone selection is massive.

The sharpening block I make (Washboard - link through signature below) can tackle all types of steel as well due to the addition of diamond in the honing compound. It has the added advantage of delivering a tactile feedback boost that is very helpful when learning freehand and for holding angles well at higher levels of finish when feedback traditionally begins to fall way off.
Click to expand...
With the DMT besides having to deload the stones from build up how is the 'dishing' that the stones experience? Do they stay 'flat' for a long period of time or should you maintain their flatness every now and then?
 
HowAmI said:
With the DMT besides having to deload the stones from build up how is the 'dishing' that the stones experience? Do they stay 'flat' for a long period of time or should you maintain their flatness every now and then?
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The DMTs don't dish, ever, but they can and will lose their diamonds over time. With a light touch and some luck your diamond plates can last many years, possibly outlasting you. If you lean on them, they can die quickly (months to a year or so). This is why I lean toward the interrupted surface DMTs as I honestly have had much better luck with longer life and better surface quality out of the box. I have and use both. I also have to say many of the cheaper diamond plates are showing up with much better quality than in past years, but are still buyer beware.

All of them benefit from being cleaned from time to time with Barkeeper's Friend cleanser.
 
It always surprises me how much those folks who use their knives appreciates a correctly sharpened knife.
Other stones-- will dish with a lot of sharpening. A SiC more so. The Norton India not much. The education you get
from leveling them is of value. Good hunting. DM
 
Atoma diamond plates are great I like them over DMT. Shapton pro are great low grit stones for super steels. Shapton glass stones are great stones especially for super steels. They are able to cut far better than Naniwa Chosera and most other stones I've tested.
 
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