Please dont hurt me... I need to ask...

[David From NC]

Hey I played golf with a Lutheran Father who said things like what you said.
That was a weird situation.

He didn't get struck by lightning did he while golfing in the rain right after saying "RAT FARTS!" ??????

 

[BFH44]

I own a couple of both brands they both are great - no problems no complaints.

I did read the descriptions closely before i bought them because i wanted to make sure what i was expecting.

 

[chavez556]

I have talked to a TOPS rep here in Idaho at a gun show, and he stated that TOPS works closely with Jeff Randell (I'm guessing that's an exaggerated)on there designs then he said "but we have a 1/4" thick 1095 " and even my 8 year old son said "dad I dont think it would work " talking about one of the wild designs we looked at. In the end I decided they weren't for me.

 

[mjc7]

I am sure the TOPS are well made and great quality. It seems like they have too many designs. I don't think I could pick one if I did want to but one. I went backpacking last June with a friend of mine. He had one of their bigger knives. I can't remember the modle but it had a saw back and it seemed very heavy to me. The entire knife as over the top from my view. It was not a good choice for backpacking, but he was carrying it not me. I had my 6 and HEST which combined cost less than his one TOPS. When I asked him how much it cost, I did not want to tell him I had paid less for both the 6 and HEST combined. Before he bought it I had suggested he look at the ESEEs but he went for the TOPS. It just remeided me that the ESEE are just fantastic values and get the job done. Throw in the warranty and it is a winner every time. So my bottom line is: TOPS interesting to look at, lots of designs, good quality, but I am spending my money on the ESEEs.

 

[noviomagus]

And I don't wear cotton in the backcountry much either anymore.

Because?It stays wet for longer time?
What do you wear?

I have talked to a TOPS rep here in Idaho at a gun show, and he stated that TOPS works closely with Jeff Randell (I'm guessing that's an exaggerated)on there designs then he said "but we have a 1/4" thick 1095 " and even my 8 year old son said "dad I dont think it would work " talking about one of the wild designs we looked at. In the end I decided they weren't for me.

The ESEE-5 is also a 1/4 inch thick but that knife has a way better grind than most Tops knives,and is quite sharp.
I have had 5 different models(Mocassin Ranger,MAK-7,Lone Falcone,Mission 21,Screaming Eagle) to finally get it into my concrete head that the designs were 'cool looking' but not the best cutters at all, and sold them.
The names are very good for marketing,and have Native American like names attached to them.
But I think an Appache or Comanche or any other tribesman, would pick an ESEE-6 or Junglas over a Tops knife.
At least the ones who are looking for a user.

That your son of 8 years old is telling you, what you were thinking ,confirms me what I already think.
Somebody with little knife knowledge(or interest) sees things with a more objective and clear vision than us knifenuts do.
It is surprising how a person with zero knife knowledge can give good arguments why a knife is good or not.Not that a knife is such a difficult tool to understand .

That's why i regulary ask someone outside the knifeworld(What do you think of this?Why?).To hear a fresh vision on things.
Same with working out with weights,or other interests in life.
It is always interesting to hear a vision that is not coloured with preferences or 'conditioned' knowledge.

 

[DH1]

I've never owned a TOPS knife and don't plan on getting any. The prices keep me away.

EDIT:
I just spent a few minutes on the TOPS site. I also don't plan on getting any because none of the designs appeal to me; wow they are weirder than I remember.

 

[obsessis]

Because?It stays wet for longer time?
What do you wear?

I'd like to hear what you wear now as well.

They make UnderArmour and other types of moisture-wicking gear out of usually a Polyester and Spandex mix....or other synthetic materials.

Cotton breaths well, but once it gets wet it stays wet for a long time. When I wear cotton undershirts and socks, if I get sweaty the shirt and socks stay wet and aren't able to dry off. During this time, it gets incredibly cold having that layer of cold, wet cotton against your skin.

Any hunting or camping in cold weather should be done with some type of undershirt/underwear/socks system that is moisture-wicking and quick drying. Some people wear two socks - one inner liner that wicks away moisture quickly and an outer later that let's soaks it up and let's it evaporate while keeping the feet warm.

I'm looking for a good, daily undershirt/white t-shirt type like this to wear to work. I sweat a lot and when I do my undershirts get soaked and it takes forever to dry out. I'd like to get something that isn't too expensive that would take the moisture and transport it to the outer layer to evaporate without making me too hot or cold.

 

[noviomagus]

I'd like to hear what you wear now as well.They make UnderArmour and other types of moisture-wicking gear out of usually a Polyester and Spandex mix....or other synthetic materials.

Cotton breaths well, but once it gets wet it stays wet for a long time. When I wear cotton undershirts and socks, if I get sweaty the shirt and socks stay wet and aren't able to dry off. During this time, it gets incredibly cold having that layer of cold, wet cotton against your skin.

Any hunting or camping in cold weather should be done with some type of undershirt/underwear/socks system that is moisture-wicking and quick drying. Some people wear two socks - one inner liner that wicks away moisture quickly and an outer later that let's soaks it up and let's it evaporate while keeping the feet warm.

I'm looking for a good, daily undershirt/white t-shirt type like this to wear to work. I sweat a lot and when I do my undershirts get soaked and it takes forever to dry out. I'd like to get something that isn't too expensive that would take the moisture and transport it to the outer layer to evaporate without making me too hot or cold.

hahaha
Funny as hell.

I wear cotton underwear.Can't stand these synthetic materials.
They give me this static electric feeling all the time.Makes me itch.
But I totally agree on the 'it stays wet' thing with cotton..

That is a downside of it.

Something natural feeling that dries quickly would be nice.

 

[David From NC]

I LOVE the feeling of cotton, but I should have said I *only* hike in cool or cold weather. Not only does it stay wet longer, the non-wicking properties tend to "hold it to you"...be it sweat or rain or Gatorade.

Also, I firmly believe that we perspire in very small amounts even if we don't realize we are "sweating". When I started hiking, I knew nothing but cotton "long johns", denim jeans, and cotton t-shirts! Since it was cold, I never felt like I sweated or perspired per se, but then I'd try to sleep in just "long handles" in a cheap sleeping bag, and I never seen the "fun" of backpacking, because I laid awake all night shivering. :thumbdn:

It's just my personal take, but I think this is why many preach to sleep naked in the sleeping bag-so you don't drag any moisture in there, and if you do drag a little in, it's not held "hostage" by cotton. I often sleep in polypro or thin fleeced underwear, and have NO problems. If anything I get too HOT!

I will admit that I often wear cotton pants or shorts while on the trail, but once I'm in camp and all the camp chores are done (tent is up, water is carried and filtered, and dinner is cooked, THEN, while dinner is cooling, I change into ALL synthetics and get "toasty" and then eat, being CAREFUL not to spill food or drink on me.

And I'm not super rich either. Decent wicking tshirts can be bought at WalMart or Kmart. I often buy my other stuff from Cabelas on closeout.

 

[tidefan]

I have some ESEE, Ontario RAT, and TOPS knives and really like them all. Yes TOPS has A LOT of models to choose from but variety is the spice of life. I know folks who swear by each brand, so here's my take.

ESEE's is an outstanding knives. What's not to like? Excellent line, steel, production, and warranty.

Ontario RAT- pretty much the same except for the warranty. ESEE's are like a +P version.

TOPS makes an outstanding knife as well. A lot of people site the price vs. 1095, but I don't see this issue. They differentially heat treat their 1095, which takes more time and effort and they offer more models to choose from.

I am a huge fan af all three as all three are excellent knives. Personally...If you like em, buy em, you won't be disappointed with either brand..Jim

 

[noviomagus]

When I started hiking, I knew nothing but cotton "long johns", denim jeans, and cotton t-shirts! Since it was cold, I never felt like I sweated or perspired per se, but then I'd try to sleep in just "long handles" in a cheap sleeping bag, and I never seen the "fun" of backpacking, because I laid awake all night shivering. :thumbdn:

It's just my personal take, but I think this is why many preach to sleep naked in the sleeping bag-so you don't drag any moisture in there, and if you do drag a little in, it's not held "hostage" by cotton. I often sleep in polypro or thin fleeced underwear, and have NO problems. If anything I get too HOT!

That's some interesting info David :thumbup:

not that i'm interested in you sleeping naked though

 

[chavez556]

That's why i regulary ask someone outside the knifeworld(What do you think of this?Why?).To hear a fresh vision on things.
Same with working out with weights,or other interests in life.
It is always interesting to hear a vision that is not coloured with preferences or 'conditioned' knowledge.

You that's a great idea I use to ask my wife, but know she just says "have you thought about it for 2 days?", and that seems to work great, but i concure that ESEE for myself anyways they don't need much thought.

 

[chavez556]

That's why i regulary ask someone outside the knifeworld(What do you think of this?Why?).To hear a fresh vision on things.
Same with working out with weights,or other interests in life.
It is always interesting to hear a vision that is not coloured with preferences or 'conditioned' knowledge.

Your right that's a great idea I use to ask my wife, but know she just says "have you thought about it for 2 days?", and that seems to work great, but i concure that ESEE for myself anyways they don't need much thought.

 

[noviomagus]

Your right that's a great idea I use to ask my wife, but know she just says "have you thought about it for 2 days?", and that seems to work great, but i concure that ESEE for myself anyways they don't need much thought.

ESEE is good quality.
That's for sure.

Two days?
That's nothing.
I can come back to the same issue after two years.Going through a large ,not by me seen, thinking circle.
Some people struggle with one issue their whole life

 

[chavez556]

ESEE is good quality.
That's for sure.

Two days?
That's nothing.
I can come back to the same issue after two years.Going through a large ,not by me seen, thinking circle.
Some people struggle with one issue their whole life

That's true I have learned my lesson the hard way on a few knives, and maybe should lengthen my "thinking period"

 

[noviomagus]

That's true I have learned my lesson the hard way on a few knives, and maybe should lengthen my "thinking period"

Haha,yeah,maybe you should lengthen your thinking period .
The best decision comes,I think, when you first think about a knife's different aspects.What you want itto mean for you.
And then let it rest,forget a bit about it.Don't go for it in a impulsive feeling. The unconscious comes up with the best thought/decision.
It will come up naturally .
Sounds like creating a meditative state for finding the knife that suits you best,but it is a good way for choosing knives I think.
I find large knives great too .
The Junglas is for example a fantastic blade.
But for me, knives like the ESEE-3-5-6 feels better to me,or a Kabar or Zero Tolerance 0100(wow!),larger ,10 inch blades ,is too cumbersome,unwieldy.For me.
In a jungle environment you need a lightweight machete ofcourse.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't own 'coolfactor' knives.
There is no law ,yet,that forbids to have cool stuff
And if there was,it is justified to break that law .

 

[drillsgt71]

I have some ESEE, Ontario RAT, and TOPS knives and really like them all. Yes TOPS has A LOT of models to choose from but variety is the spice of life. I know folks who swear by each brand, so here's my take.

ESEE's is an outstanding knives. What's not to like? Excellent line, steel, production, and warranty.

Ontario RAT- pretty much the same except for the warranty. ESEE's are like a +P version.

TOPS makes an outstanding knife as well. A lot of people site the price vs. 1095, but I don't see this issue. They differentially heat treat their 1095, which takes more time and effort and they offer more models to choose from.

I am a huge fan af all three as all three are excellent knives. Personally...If you like em, buy em, you won't be disappointed with either brand..Jim

+1 I have had some of each also. The only issue I have with the TOPS knives is that there are too many weird designs. I also think a lot of the models are designed for the mall ninja crowd, but there are some very good designs in the mix. I have plans to buy a few more TOPS knives but then I will still end up with more ESEE knives.

 

[lumberjacker]

I have a handfull of both TOPs and ESEE. I have the HEST, RC4, an Izula and x2 RC5. For TOPs I have the M1 Midget, MIL SPIE 5 , XcEST Alpha and the Tom Brown Tracker.
My EDC here in Iraq changes between my HEST adn M1 MIdget. Back home I never seem to leave the house without my Izula. In the woods I change it up between a RC5 , RC4 or sometimes the TBT and the Xc EST Alpha.
I am not a knife expert but a knive nut that feels that I can accomplish any task in the woods with any knive I pick.

 

[RatDrall]

As far as cost, are you guys comparing retail? Who pays retail for knives? Comparable TOPS knives cost similar, or less, than models from ESEE.

My wife got me a pair of TOPS knives, a Tom Brown Tracker and the scout that goes with it. The Scout was less expensive than an ESEE-3, and the Tracker cost somewhere between an ESEE-5 and a JUNGLAS. The quality, fit and finish are equal to any of my ESEE/RC knives. The blades seem to have a good heat treat, and sharpen easily. I dig the handles, they are comfortable in any grip that I'd use and don't dig into my hand in use.

The only thing I don't like about my TOPS knives are the sheaths. The ESEE sheaths are very versatile, while TOPS fixes a stupid swivel thingy with a belt clip on it, that you can't remove. It makes it a serious pain in the ass to lash the knife to the outside of my pack, which is where I like to carry my heavier woods knives. I'm afraid that the steel clip will wear a hole in my backpack.

TOPS makes good knives, but for every day use I'd take an Izula or ESEE-3 anyday.

That said, most of the complaints I hear about TOPS come from people who have never owned one. Nutnfancy did a half hour hit piece on the Tom Brown Tracker using a Hollywood movie and pictures from the internet as the basis for his feedback, the guy didn't even hold the knife. Don't be like that at ESEE forum guys...

 

[R.A.T.]

I have talked to a TOPS rep here in Idaho at a gun show, and he stated that TOPS works closely with Jeff Randell (I'm guessing that's an exaggerated)on there designs

Not exactly true unless it was many, many years ago and the "designs" were the Laser Strike and nothing else. We have never worked with TOPS on their designs. Good company and good people. Shon and us are helping Mike Fuller do the transition on the HEST fixed blade from the Rowen shop to the TOPS shop for DPx. Other than that we have no design association. Love their knives though.