Please explain appeal of Sebenza to me

[wolf5391]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the warranty. If you send the knife into CRK, for 30 bucks they will refurb the knife for you. You will basically get a brand new knife, new birth card, and box. You can't beat that.

hahaha, That's nothing. You have to pay to get it fixed/new again.

I remember when I broke the tip off my Kershaw (my stupidity caused it) and they gave me a brand new knife free of charge and no shipping costs.

Kershaw truly has the best warranty:thumbup:

Also, Chris chooses who he allows to have the warranty, and if he feels your wrong he'll cuss you out and still make you pay for it.... really???.... do you really want to support him?

anyways I don't want to derail the thread, but you guys know how I feel on the subject.

 

[gwebb]

hahaha, That's nothing. You have to pay to get it fixed/new again.

I remember when I broke the tip off my Kershaw (my stupidity caused it) and they gave me a brand new knife free of charge and no shipping costs.

Kershaw truly has the best warranty:thumbup:

Also, Chris chooses who he allows to have the warranty, and if he feels your wrong he'll cuss you out and still make you pay for it.... really???.... do you really want to support him?

anyways I don't want to derail the thread, but you guys know how I feel on the subject.

If you're willing to pay $350 for a pocket knife, 30 bucks ain't so bad friend. Cool story though bro.

 

[wolf5391]

If you're willing to pay $350 for a pocket knife, 30 bucks ain't so bad friend. Cool story though bro.

30 bucks more than you need to spend... I don't know about you but I don't like giving money away...maybe you do and that yours choice.

I believe in legit warranties and great people who are customer friendly though and I don't believe Chris offers either.


Nice fish BTW

 

[AmericanEDC]

I don't need explaining of why a knife is $400 any more then I need to understand why Weber Grill made in America charges well into the thousands for some models for something that you can get made in China for less than $100 that does the same thing to your meat. I wanted a variety of opinions as to what the appeal was of this specific knife. Nothing more nothing less.

I don't know why anyone would be offended or take issue with someone like me simply asking for a variety of opinions about a particular knife. I regularly pay a lot more money for items made in America that I view at least as good or better
then similar options made anywhere else in the world. If someone said, "they pay their workers more" that alone would be a pretty good topic. I wasn't even complaining about the price. I only said that at this price for this type of knife I'm not currently interested in it. Maybe after seeing it I would be? I'm definitely interested in seeking one out after this discussion.

 

[gwebb]

30 bucks more than you need to spend... I don't know about you but I don't like giving money away...maybe you do and that yours choice.

I believe in legit warranties and great people who are customer friendly though and I don't believe Chris offers either.


Nice fish BTW

I dont know what kind of collection you have at home but my collection is not big. I have 3 folding knives and 1 fixed blade knife. I bought a Sebenza because i wanted one knife that could handle most anything but also last my lifetime. Thanks to the warranty (i understand there is a conflict here. Not sure what transpired between you and Mr. Reeve, but i am sure it cant be an everyday occurrence.) i can pay 30 dollars and have the knife i used for 5 years look brand new again. You see where i am going with this. I am no collector and use the knives i have. I am not saying you dont! I have no clue how you use your knives. The only thing i worry about is losing the darn thing. There is no warranty coverage for loss/theft. That was a 7 and a half pounder out of Duck Lake up here in Southern WI/Northern IL. Thanks brother!

 

[wolf5391]

I dont know what kind of collection you have at home but my collection is not big. I have 3 folding knives and 1 fixed blade knife. I bought a Sebenza because i wanted one knife that could handle most anything but also last my lifetime. Thanks to the warranty (i understand there is a conflict here. Not sure what transpired between you and Mr. Reeve, but i am sure it cant be an everyday occurrence.) i can pay 30 dollars and have the knife i used for 5 years look brand new again. You see where i am going with this. I am no collector and use the knives i have. I am not saying you dont! I have no clue how you use your knives. The only thing i worry about is losing the darn thing. There is no warranty coverage for loss/theft. That was a 7 and a half pounder out of Duck Lake up here in Southern WI/Northern IL. Thanks brother!

Its a very long story but there were words.

Anyways everyone can reach there own opinion on if the knife is good for them... for you it seems your happy with it and if it works for you, who am I to tell you any different.

I and many others have not had a good experience with him and his knives so I (and they) choose to stay away.

To each his own i guess.

 

[Scurvy092]

I don't need explaining of why a knife is $400 any more then I need to understand why Weber Grill made in America charges well into the thousands for some models for something that you can get made in China for less than $100 that does the same thing to your meat. I wanted a variety of opinions as to what the appeal was of this specific knife. Nothing more nothing less.

I don't know why anyone would be offended or take issue with someone like me simply asking for a variety of opinions about a particular knife. I regularly pay a lot more money for items made in America that I view at least as good or better
then similar options made anywhere else in the world. If someone said, "they pay their workers more" that alone would be a pretty good topic. I wasn't even complaining about the price. I only said that at this price for this type of knife I'm not currently interested in it. Maybe after seeing it I would be? I'm definitely interested in seeking one out after this discussion.

This isn't how your OP came across. It came across as 'why would someone pay $400+ for this plain looking knife'.

I would suggest reading up on how CRK makes knives and repost this with some rewording in the Chris Reeves section and you will probably get some more germane responses to the question instead of blind CRK hate.

 

[Twindog]

refer to my post again, I have updated it with more videos from John. I have extensively used Chris's s35vn and it doesnt even compare to most other manufactures low grade steels (vg10) (aus8a) (8cr13mov) to name a few.

Your s30v blade is the same rockwell as the newer s35vn steel he uses, and that was my point. Hes not using the steel to its fullest potential. (stubborn old man syndrome )

Zknives has a nice article on this issue, linked below. He takes your position that Chris Reeve runs his steel too soft, but my issue is that hardness is a choice that involves the balance of edge wear and toughness. Knife makers can choose one way or the other, depending on their goals. Their choice may be different than the one you make, but it’s not a mistake – at least not at the Chris Reeve level.

I have an issue with ZT running the 0560CBCF at 59HRc, which I think is way too soft for S110V. ZT chose this hardness because they wanted the stunning visual appeal of a composite blade; and composite blades with copper brazing cannot be run at the temperatures required to bring S110V to higher hardnesses. I don’t agree with ZT’s choice, but the company’s choice was not a mistake, it was their considered choice in a balance between appearance and performance. The knife’s blade is beautiful, and S110V, even run soft, still performs well.

I also had an issue with Benchmade running it’s early CPM M4 too soft: 59HRc. I sent the blade off to a very well known knife maker to bump up the hardness to 64Rc. When I got it back, the blade shattered into three pieces under hand pressure. Softer isn’t always worse. Harder isn't always better. I sent the carnage back to Benchmade and paid to have a new stock blade installed at my expense.

From the Zknives link:

[Re: S30V] For the reference, Crucible representative stated that: if you are not sure what jobs you will ask of the knife (cutting, prying, picking, chopping, you get the picture) then we recommend HRC 58+/-. If you are sure you only need edge retention (i.e. you know you will only be slicing or carving) then HRC 60+/- is OK. So we think unless you know you are in the latter category, HRC 58 is the best choice.

However CRK choose to use 57-58 HRC then, and later bumped up a point 58-59HRC. The explanation from CRK is that this is suffice for most cutting needs, makes sharpening easier and keeps the blade tough enough to withstand some abuse.

http://zknives.com/knives/folding/hiend/crkssebp3.shtml

 

[pvicenzi]

Fantastic knives, but as you can see not everybody likes them. The only way you will know if a Sebenza is for you is to buy one and use it for awhile.

 

[wolf5391]

why would he do that? He would just get fan boys and could waste his money on something he doesn't want. This way he gets a broad spectrum of thoughts..

read Esavs post at the beggining. He stated it perfectly.

If you want to hear from all the people who don't want a Sebenza, post in General Knife Discussion.

If you want to hear from all the people who do want a Sebenza, post in the Chris Reeve Knives forum at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/703-Chris-Reeve-Knives

This isn't how your OP came across. It came across as 'why would someone pay $400+ for this plain looking knife'.

I would suggest reading up on how CRK makes knives and repost this with some rewording in the Chris Reeves section and you will probably get some more germane responses to the question instead of blind CRK hate.

 

[powernoodle]

I've been doing some searches but haven't found the answer.

They make people feel good.

Sebenza's don't cut better than other knives. If you peel an apple with a Delica and a Buck 110 and a Sebenza, the apple won't know the difference. They all cut stuff.

But to many folks, having a knife that opens smoother than anyone else's knife, with titanium slabs and all of that good stuff - its just makes them feel real good. And I sorta get it. Just playing with a Sebenza, using it, carrying it, and playing with it some more, it just fires off the pleasure neurons in your brain and distracts you from reality for a moment. It makes you feel good.

Now, some folks don't get the feel good part. They think its stupid to pay $435 or whatever for a knife that doesn't peel an apple better than a Buck Vantage. And if utility is your sole measure, then it is stupid to pay that much for a knife.

But if you get the feel good thing, you are getting your money's worth with a Sebenza because $435 is not much to pay for 20 years of feeling good several times a day. In fact its a bargain.

So it really depends on which side of the line you fall on. I'm sorta 50-50. On one hand, I own 3 CRKs and I get the appeal. On the other hand, I feel pretty stupid for letting myself get caught up in the hype and the spin.

I don't begrudge anyone for loving their Sebenzas, and in fact quiet admire such a person. It is just plain fun to hang out with people - even on the internet - who are into their toys, the knives, their Sebenzas, etc. People who are loving life and living it up with their toys. I like that. What I don't accept is when someone tries to justify a CRK purchase (not that it requires justification) based on a knife's utility. They don't cut better. But they are better at making you feel good, and thats a sufficient justification for owning one.

 

[Franciscomv]

I can't tell you what the appeal of a Sebenza is for other people, but I'll do my best to explain why I love mine. It took me a long time to pull the trigger on one, most of my production folding knives are in the $150-200 price range and for the price of a Sebenza I can get a nice custom in my country. However, for the past year or so, I've been buying fewer but more expensive knives, so I decided to give a Sebenza a try. I knew that if i didn't like it I could sell it and make a nice profit (I'm outside the US, knives here sell for double or more their American MSRP).

When I received it, it was love at first sight. Every single detail on it was very well made, and there were no extra bells and whistles. Just a simple design with few parts, but crafted almost perfectly. I'm a sucker for what my wrestling coach calls "ABC done right", which means there's nothing outlandish or exotic about the materials or features on the Sebenza, but it's put together with skill and attention to detail.

I enjoy it thoroughly and use it very often. It hasn't kicked my other knives from my EDC rotation, but I feel it was money well spent. So much so that I might buy a Insingo soon.

 

[AmericanEDC]

I re read my original post and it asks what the appeal is and what makes it a $400 pocket knife. I asked if it was considered a semi custom. I pointed out that people who buy it seem to keep it. I pointed out that it appears to be a holy grail knife.

I don't see anywhere in the OP that it slanted towards a disparagement of the knife or the cost. Please re read it yourself and tell me how that can be taken out of what I wrote. I think you may have slanted my post, not me.

Stay friendly everyone...hard to read proper tone into these. I'm typing on a 3.5" diagonal screen...can barely go backwards to edit.

 

[Tripton]

I dont know what kind of collection you have at home but my collection is not big. I have 3 folding knives and 1 fixed blade knife. I bought a Sebenza because i wanted one knife that could handle most anything but also last my lifetime. Thanks to the warranty (i understand there is a conflict here. Not sure what transpired between you and Mr. Reeve, but i am sure it cant be an everyday occurrence.) i can pay 30 dollars and have the knife i used for 5 years look brand new again. You see where i am going with this. I am no collector and use the knives i have. I am not saying you dont! I have no clue how you use your knives. The only thing i worry about is losing the darn thing. There is no warranty coverage for loss/theft. That was a 7 and a half pounder out of Duck Lake up here in Southern WI/Northern IL. Thanks brother!

A quick search will reveal what did transpire. Judge for yourself.


Beware of anyone who points to youTube "tests" to push their point. Especially if the person who is doing the linking AND the person who did the videos have both been asked to no longer post in the CRK forum.

 

[wolf5391]

Zknives has a nice article on this issue, linked below. He takes your position that Chris Reeve runs his steel too soft, but my issue is that hardness is a choice that involves the balance of edge wear and toughness. Knife makers can choose one way or the other, depending on their goals. Their choice may be different than the one you make, but it’s not a mistake – at least not at the Chris Reeve level.

I have an issue with ZT running the 0560CBCF at 59HRc, which I think is way too soft for S110V. ZT chose this hardness because they wanted the stunning visual appeal of a composite blade; and composite blades with copper brazing cannot be run at the temperatures required to bring S110V to higher hardnesses. I don’t agree with ZT’s choice, but the company’s choice was not a mistake, it was their considered choice in a balance between appearance and performance. The knife’s blade is beautiful, and S110V, even run soft, still performs well.

I also had an issue with Benchmade running it’s early CPM M4 too soft: 59HRc. I sent the blade off to a very well known knife maker to bump up the hardness to 64Rc. When I got it back, the blade shattered into three pieces under hand pressure. Softer isn’t always worse. Harder isn't always better. I sent the carnage back to Benchmade and paid to have a new stock blade installed at my expense.

From the Zknives link:

[Re: S30V] For the reference, Crucible representative stated that: if you are not sure what jobs you will ask of the knife (cutting, prying, picking, chopping, you get the picture) then we recommend HRC 58+/-. If you are sure you only need edge retention (i.e. you know you will only be slicing or carving) then HRC 60+/- is OK. So we think unless you know you are in the latter category, HRC 58 is the best choice.

However CRK choose to use 57-58 HRC then, and later bumped up a point 58-59HRC. The explanation from CRK is that this is suffice for most cutting needs, makes sharpening easier and keeps the blade tough enough to withstand some abuse.

http://zknives.com/knives/folding/hiend/crkssebp3.shtml

Though some of this is correct, s110v and s35vn are completely different beasts.

the reason why your benchmades blade broke is because its M4 at 64. You'd have to be crazy to think that was gonna work

Believe me I have heat treated and tested steels and I know the way it is done, and his s35vn can easily be at 59.5 to 61 without any issues and would take a great edge and be easily maintained.

also, prying with any or his folders voids warranty and same with chopping (because it messes up the tolerances and is considered abuse), so the fact that he would heat treat the knife to withstand those instead of maximum cutting performance blows my mind.... That's like me putting mud tires on my truck and getting it prepare to go mudding , and then being told that if I used it to go mudding it would void my trucks warranty....

His steel does suffice, but for $350 it should exceed.

 

[338375]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the warranty. If you send the knife into CRK, for 30 bucks they will refurb the knife for you. You will basically get a brand new knife, new birth card, and box. You can't beat that.

There is one company, that will make your knife look like new again, for free...

I don't need explaining of why a knife is $400 any more then I need to understand why Weber Grill made in America charges well into the thousands for some models for something that you can get made in China for less than $100 that does the same thing to your meat. I wanted a variety of opinions as to what the appeal was of this specific knife. Nothing more nothing less.

I don't know why anyone would be offended or take issue with someone like me simply asking for a variety of opinions about a particular knife. I regularly pay a lot more money for items made in America that I view at least as good or better
then similar options made anywhere else in the world. If someone said, "they pay their workers more" that alone would be a pretty good topic. I wasn't even complaining about the price. I only said that at this price for this type of knife I'm not currently interested in it. Maybe after seeing it I would be? I'm definitely interested in seeking one out after this discussion.

Threads about Sebenzas, usually drift off the original topic very quickly. It is a valid question, but the topic has been discussed beyond belief.
Those that support them, ,will argue til the cows come home, that they are well worth the price...
Those don't feel they are worth the price, will always argue their point.

It really doesn't matter what others here say. The only thing that matters is if you like a particular knife. Only way to do it is to buy one a and give it a try.
If you like it after getting one, you will know why, and not be just taking others words for it.
If you don't like it, you will know why. At least you will have tried.

 

[wolf5391]

A quick search will reveal what did transpire. Judge for yourself.


Beware of anyone who points to youTube "tests" to push their point. Especially if the person who is doing the linking AND the person who did the videos have both been asked to no longer post in the CRK forum.

Like clockwork

Trollllolololololol.

Chris is the kind of person that tries to silence people when they bring his sales down quite sad.

as for the youtube test, I don't see how it could get any more valid than that. No editing was done, the knife just failed a simple task. Because it wasn't HT'd properly.

 

[gwebb]

Like clockwork

Trollllolololololol.

Chris is the kind of person that tries to silence people when they bring his sales down quite sad.

as for the youtube test, I don't see how it could get any more valid than that. No editing was done, the knife just failed a simple task. Because it wasn't HT'd properly.

Alright man. Not cool. OP, here are some thoughts from wolf5391 last year, obviously before the warranty issue. Wolf5391, you basically give someone else the same advice that i have given the OP. See below:

"The way I look at it is there is so much hype over a sebenza that people think its the end all knife. When they get it they realize its just like every other blade but the tolerances are just better. They then feel underwhelmed as you are. The knife is designed to be simple which I find is a sexy design. Some people think its plain and are turned off by the knife or dont get the hype at first. Then the knife is used and then is truely appreciated. I found my first experience with a sebenza was kind of like yours but the knife greatly grew on me and it hasnt left my pocket in over 2 years. Since then I have bought 2 more and am looking at another. In the end the knife just is meant to do work (Sebenza means "work" in Zulu). Its meant to be used. It a very functional piece of art. If it doesnt grow on you sell it and youll get your money back."

Come on man. I thought you were cool for a minute. Sorry for derailing the thread a bit OP. I am out. Hopefully you take something useful from all of this.

 

[AmericanEDC]

I for one have learned what I posted to learn. Little did I realize it was a contentious issue.

Anyone care to suggest a great fit and finish alternative for this lefty? A 3" or so blade. As of right now I don't see myself using this particular $400 knife as a daily carry. I know that's a topic for another post but I've been looking at a Caly 3 satin blade in s30v. I own mini Griptilian, nice perhaps a little thick. I'd like to get something in CF. For whatever reason I like CF; I use a CF money clip. But I also like grippy g10. My "tolerance for pain" is probably $200 for this purpose....a knife I won't think twice about putting use marks on the blade.

Thanks all.

 

[Scurvy092]

They make people feel good.

Sebenza's don't cut better than other knives. If you peel an apple with a Delica and a Buck 110 and a Sebenza, the apple won't know the difference. They all cut stuff.

But to many folks, having a knife that opens smoother than anyone else's knife, with titanium slabs and all of that good stuff - its just makes them feel real good. And I sorta get it. Just playing with a Sebenza, using it, carrying it, and playing with it some more, it just fires off the pleasure neurons in your brain and distracts you from reality for a moment. It makes you feel good.

Now, some folks don't get the feel good part. They think its stupid to pay $435 or whatever for a knife that doesn't peel an apple better than a Buck Vantage. And if utility is your sole measure, then it is stupid to pay that much for a knife.

But if you get the feel good thing, you are getting your money's worth with a Sebenza because $435 is not much to pay for 20 years of feeling good several times a day. In fact its a bargain.

So it really depends on which side of the line you fall on. I'm sorta 50-50. On one hand, I own 3 CRKs and I get the appeal. On the other hand, I feel pretty stupid for letting myself get caught up in the hype and the spin.

I don't begrudge anyone for loving their Sebenzas, and in fact quiet admire such a person. It is just plain fun to hang out with people - even on the internet - who are into their toys, the knives, their Sebenzas, etc. People who are loving life and living it up with their toys. I like that. What I don't accept is when someone tries to justify a CRK purchase (not that it requires justification) based on a knife's utility. They don't cut better. But they are better at making you feel good, and thats a sufficient justification for owning one.

It's just like anything else in life...

A Corolla can get you back and worth to work just as well as a Mercedes

A Casio can tell time just as well as a Rolex

A paper plate will hold your food just as well as fine china

I re read my original post and it asks what the appeal is and what makes it a $400 pocket knife. I asked if it was considered a semi custom. I pointed out that people who buy it seem to keep it. I pointed out that it appears to be a holy grail knife.

I don't see anywhere in the OP that it slanted towards a disparagement of the knife or the cost. Please re read it yourself and tell me how that can be taken out of what I wrote. I think you may have slanted my post, not me.

Stay friendly everyone...hard to read proper tone into these. I'm typing on a 3.5" diagonal screen...can barely go backwards to edit.

There isn't a lot of friendliness in General. It's too wide of a spread of the knife population. Everything from the 'I won't spend anything over $50 for a knife' people up to the 'Hey, check out the 1300 custom I just bought' people.

Though some of this is correct, s110v and s35vn are completely different beasts.

the reason why your benchmades blade broke is because its M4 at 64. You'd have to be crazy to think that was gonna work

Believe me I have heat treated and tested steels and I know the way it is done, and his s35vn can easily be at 59.5 to 61 without any issues and would take a great edge and be easily maintained.

also, prying with any or his folders voids warranty and same with chopping (because it messes up the tolerances and is considered abuse), so the fact that he would heat treat the knife to withstand those instead of maximum cutting performance blows my mind.... .That's like me putting mud tires on my truck and getting it prepare to go mudding , and then being told that if I used it to go mudding it would void my trucks warranty...

His steel does suffice, but for $350 it should exceed.

You understand that car manufacturers actually DO this all the time right?

If you buy a sports car and then blow the motor while racing it on the track, they won't honor the warranty...

Heck, Ford wasn't honoring warranties for people who bent the frames of their SVT Raptors because they were jumping them when Ford showed the Raptor jumping in a ton of it's marketing.