Please pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Thanks for the insight behind the design, I particularly enjoy getting to hear about the nuances of why certain elements exist.

This one is on the short list for the collection -- I really enjoy the ergos on my stretch, and this wharncliffe blade looks great.
 
I agree, a Salt version seems like a no brainer. As always, Sal will wait for sales to bear that out, but I am confident that it will do well.
 
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Just at a glance, the handle looks like a frn version of the handle on my superleaf and superhawk. I have been eager to try the SE version on this upcoming model.
 
I had my finger on the trigger for a Swayback since they were released. After a lot of thought and looking at how I like to carry FRN knives over titanium or G-10, I will be ordering one of these ASAP. I think it will sate my warncliffe appetite.
 
I'm very excited about this handle design! Glad to see no jimping, too.

I really do appreciate the handle-forward design, because of how it maximizes the cutting edge.

I like the Wharncliffe blade in every way except how its shape prevents it from sitting deeper into the handle when closed. If there are plans for an additional blade shape that would be more toward a drop point or the signature Spyderco leaf shape or clipped shape, I'd definitely be the first in line.

Haven't posted on bladeforums or even frequented it in a while. The spate of new Spydercos has brought me back.
 
[EDIT: Not sure where this post came from. I cannot delete it.]

double tap.

sal
 
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I am one of the people who don't like 50-50 choils at all and only tolerate an edge not going to the handle. This should be my dream way of making a knife. I want the most edge you can fit in the handle.

The reason I hate choils and unsharpened kicks sticking out is the blade to edge ratio is way off. I believe that is why everyone in this camp hates it, I could be wrong about that. For example, the PM2 is 3 inches of edge in a handle that handles 4 (BM710 has almost the exact same length handle with an extra inch of edge).

Some Spyderco designs manage a good handle to edge ratio despite having a choils (Gayle Bradley) and unsharpened kicks (Yo2 is pretty good). Expanding to other brands, there are lots better in specifically that facet. The Tenacious family without either is perfect.

So how does this knife do? Size-wise it's in the same ballpark as the Delica, so that's an easy comparison. The Delica is one of those knives with kick not sharpened, so the RockJumper should be better in edge to handle ratio if it solved the problem. Per Spyderco.com, the Delica has 2.875" of edge and 4.35" handle length. The Rock Jumper is 2.85" of edge and closed length of 4.43". It appears this model is actually worse than the model it was supposed to solve in edge to handle ratio, with both less edge and more handle length, exactly the opposite of the solution to the complaint.

I appreciate it is not a simple tweak to address the change, but other brands for years now have managed it by putting internal stop pins. This method is just trying to hide that it has the problem, from my perspective. It is a visual change rather than functional one in a way that makes it functionally even worse.

Maybe some people just don't like the visual of the kick sticking out, and they'll be happy with this. People not liking them for edge to handle ratio wonkiness won't. I bring this all up for one reason: as someone who always wants more of these designs, I hope if the RockJumper doesn't sell, the reason will be known so that it isn't the last attempt to address the complaint, and that future modifications will go to the functional component instead.
 
Hi Keole,

Thanx for sharing your thoughts and preferences. I must admit that the problem that I was trying to solve had nothing to do with the "visual" edge to handle ratio. That is not a functional value that makes much difference to me. Handles are for holding, edges are for cutting. Edge to handle ratios are a visual or aesthetic value closer to art than function. A scalpel would not perform better if the blade were longer or the handle were shorter. Though we design models like the tenacious for people like you that care about that ratio.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
...

Edge to handle ratios are a visual or aesthetic value closer to art than function. A scalpel would not perform better if the blade were longer or the handle were shorter. Though we design models like the tenacious for people like you that care about that ratio.
Click to expand...

The scalpel is an interesting analogy for the blade-to-handle ratio and one I never thought of. However, the scalpel is used in basically one way, whereas knives are often used to cut in various different ways.

Aesthetics aside -- which aren't a factor for me regarding this ratio -- the main practical reason for my obsessing over blade length relative to the handle is that, I assume, having more edge to dull means that I can use the knife for longer between sharpenings. Super-duper steels mitigate this, obviously, but then they increase sharpening time/difficulty.
 
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NeoClassic said:
The scalpel is an interesting analogy for the blade-to-handle ratio and one I never thought of. However, the scalpel is used in basically one way, whereas knives are often used to cut in various different ways.

Aesthetics aside -- which aren't a factor for me regarding this ratio -- the main practical reason for my obsessing over blade length relative to the handle is that, I assume, having more edge to dull means that I can use the knife for longer between sharpenings. Super-duper steels mitigate this, obviously, but then they increase sharpening time/difficulty.
Click to expand...

Having more sharpened edge can increase how much you can cut, but only incrementally, especially if were talking about fractions of an inch.

Meanwhile, with the tip of the knife closer to the end of the handle, for some hand sizes and types, this creates a scenario where the knife tip will nip the palm of their hand while closing. Obviously undesirable.

Bringing the tip too close to the end of the handle also can create a scenario where something catches the tip and partially opens it inadvertently. Also undesirable.

Deleting the finger choil and/or ricasso creates a way where any squirrelly material can easily and frequently slide off the back of the sharpened edge and get snagged. Also this creates scenarios where its easier to cut yourself on the heel while closing, or while gripping the knife forward too much. All of this is less than desirable.

The theoretical gains from an incrementally longer cutting edge have some real trade offs. The utility and versatility of a large finger choil and ricasso adds significantly more usefulness than a theoretical ratio.

What's going to matter more with regards to total capable cutting volume of a sharpened edge would be as follows.

Sharpening by the end user.
Geometry of the blade
Steel composition and heat treat
 
SubMicron said:
Having more sharpened edge can increase how much you can cut, but only incrementally, especially if were talking about fractions of an inch.

Meanwhile, with the tip of the knife closer to the end of the handle, for some hand sizes and types, this creates a scenario where the knife tip will nip the palm of their hand while closing. Obviously undesirable.

Bringing the tip too close to the end of the handle also can create a scenario where something catches the tip and partially opens it inadvertently. Also undesirable.

Deleting the finger choil and/or ricasso creates a way where any squirrelly material can easily and frequently slide off the back of the sharpened edge and get snagged. Also this creates scenarios where its easier to cut yourself on the heel while closing, or while gripping the knife forward too much. All of this is less than desirable.

The theoretical gains from an incrementally longer cutting edge have some real trade offs. The utility and versatility of a large finger choil and ricasso adds significantly more usefulness than a theoretical ratio.

What's going to matter more with regards to total capable cutting volume of a sharpened edge would be as follows.

Sharpening by the end user.
Geometry of the blade
Steel composition and heat treat
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand. I am aware of the issues you cite. Thank you for your comment.
 
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Sal Glesser said:
Eric and I try really hard to create models that will serve a wide variety of customer's; hands, needs and desires. We don't expect that everyone will like everything about every model.

sal
Click to expand...

It was not my intention to have my previous nitpicks override the appreciation we all have for your products and how you run Spyderco. We all very much enjoy many of your knives and appreciate that you do listen and take time to interact. I look forward to getting a RockJumper in hand and am excited to see how this new handle design works.
 
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Personally, I enjoy the friendly debate on these various subjects. The posts made by various people on the forums have really helped me to crystallize my views and have changed my positions on various things.

With regard to blade to handle ratio and total cutting ability, fundamentally what matters is the length of the cutting edge. So a 4" edge obviously could cut more that a 3" edge if all other blade related variables were the same.

If the knife with a 3" edge had a 3" handle and the knife with 4" edge had a 5.5" handle, obviously the 3" knife has a superior blade to handle ratio, however the 4" one would still have more cutting ability, no matter how long the handle is.

In terms of total cutting power through a volume of material, a high end steel thats made well is going to take you leaps and bounds farther than making the cutting edge longer in a pocket knife.

The design of many of Spyderco's knives has challenged and changed what I thought was important in a knife.

Which brings us back to the topic of the thread, the Rockjumper. I'm gonna buy it when it drops but I've been very dismissive of VG10.

With wanting to get into Wharncliffes more and impatient for the Rockjumper, I went ahead and bought a Wharncliffe Dragonfly in VG10, my first knife in the steel.

At work, with some frequency I need a very sharp knife for some very fine tasks. The VG10 D'Fly Wharnie is proving useful. The super steels are great of course, and absolutely necessary for me, but if this is a knife that will be lightly sharpened or stropped each day it gets used, or even mid day, as long as it gets me through what I need it for, I'd prefer to use up VG10 and not something else. Especially if I always have a super steel within reach.

VG10 definitely takes a very sharp edge without much hassle. I'm confident the Rockjumper will prove useful for various tasks around the house.
 
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