Please sell me on the Surefire L4

A

anewguy

Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
165
It seems like a lot of guys here really like the LED thing. But I am still having a hard time deciding between the L4 and the E2e. The price difference is not that much of a deal to me (not that I wouldn’t like to save some cash, just that I am willing to pay for the superior product, if it is in fact superior). I read a lot of posts on the L4 talking about how it is awful bright “for a LED” and I get a bit apprehensive. There are a lot of caveat style posts that say stuff like “it might not seem like it is that bright, but wait ‘till you get in a dark room…” That might be great for others but I like having the option to stun someone is a pretty well lit room (what I mean by this is a room at night that has all the “room lights” turned on) if needs be (I have played with the E2e and I feel like it would live up to the challenge). How much confidence do you who have the L4 have that your light could do this?

I have read that its light is more like a flood but still has a “hot spot.” Will this “hot spot” stay effective at 40-50 feet (in darkness, as in “honey, you hear that?” kinda darkness)? Sorry if these questions sound silly, or if I am missing the point of this light, but your feedback is appreciated.
 
oh yeah, and can the GG&G TID for the E2e (or any other model) be used on the L4? thanks
 
The L4 is more robust and more reliable and it saves your cost for changing bulbs. I thinks it's a better choice for EDC. It's intended for mid-range uses and the E2e does outthrow the L4.I don't think you can use the GG&G TID for the E2e on the L4.
 
Keep in mind that a higher initial buy-in for an L4 will actually work out to a significant savings over time as you will not have to replace lamp assemblies. I cannot remember what they cost, but one or two of them will raise the operating cost of the non-LEDS significantly.

Having said that, I have not yet bought into the L4, uncharacteristically restraining myself when it came out. I really like my e2e when I need brightness and throw. I really like my L1 for general utility use. Based on reviews it would appear that the L4 fits inbetween these two lights, but cannot really replace either, except maybe the E and P60 series lights if you can live without the throw, which I cannot. The L4 sounds too bright for general work: taking out the trash, tracing wiring, blackout duty, etc. If it had the two stage switch that the L1 has it could be darn near perfect, 3 stages would be even cooler.

Typically when traveling I have both as it provides redundancy. If limited to just one light, then I might go for the L4
 
It totally depends on your intended usage of the light.

If you're needing to light up something 50 feet away in somewhat moderate ambient light, don't get an L4.

If, however, you need a very durable EDC light that packs a lot of floodish light that's very white, then an L4 is the light to have.

The nice thing about the L4 is that it does have a nice bright hotspot, but there's a huge amount of side spill that lights up all the cracks and crevises of a room.

I wouldn't consider the L4 a tactical light if that means using it to temporarily blind an attacker. Yes, you will have an extreme headache if you look at the emitter, but it's not going to blind you like a Tigerlight or a M6 or something. That being said, it would be the light I pick up to go investigate a bump in the night.

I also can't say enough good things about the beam shape. It's just a brilliant white ball of light, no hint of any artifacts. It's beautiful, a gadget freak's paradise :)
 
I have them both, as well as the A2, with that "light aramamentarium" the E2e is pretty much obsolete. The L4 has a killer beam and as mentioned above is about as "robust" as it comes. The A2 has a little bit of everything, the multiple LEDs are perfect when you need to just illuminate something at close range (looking for your keys in the dark), and there are real savings in terms of battery usage. When you need more power, you get an extra 50+ lumens from the xenon bulb. The L4 is about as bright or brighter, but you only have that mode of operation. To me the question is not L4 vs. E2e, but L4 vs. A2, and I personally just prefer the L4 because there is never a bulb to replace, so you can use it with impunity, with the A2, I'm always thinking about how much burn time I've used, because they don't last all that long, and the replacement bulbs are not cheap and can be tough to get sometimes.
 
I wish I had the money for an M3T cuz I like the throw of the E2e but want more of it. The L4 was nice when I looked at it at the gun show but it wouldn't throw as far as I wanted. E2e was much cheaper and had what I wanted. That's how I justified my purchase.
 
Thanks for the replies guys! I’m not sure if I am hearing you correctly but it sounds like no one would really rely on the L4 as a “blinder-type” light. Am I misunderstanding you here? Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea of a bulb that you don’t have to worry about, and the extended battery run time, but a major factor in my decision is the SD aspect of a light (and I am hoping it would have this quality for at least 10-15 feet away). I realize that a light this small is not going to perform as well as a M3 but I still think that the E2e has the needed amount of “blinding light.”

Torment—thanks for the link, that is a pretty interesting forum. However, I can’t find the thread you are talking about. Was it in the “review” section or the LED section, or some other place?

Thanks again for your help
 
When I first got my L4, I just had to look into the emitter. I had a headache afterwards.

If I get up from sleeping and it's still dark, and I light up the room with the L4, it hurts my eyes.

It's *very* bright. It's every bit as painful, maybe moreso, than any 2x123 "tactical" light.

However, if I were going to use a light for SD, it would be a bigger light, probably a Tigerlight, that is *very* bright (probably 250+ lumens) and also could be used as a club if the blinding tactic didn't work. Of course, it's quite a bit bigger...

Go to the dealer and check out the L4. :)
 
IMHO, the concept of "blinding" power is like "stopping" power in a handgun- really subjective, hard to define, probably non-existent and not to be relied on. The idea that someone will melt under the glare of palm size solar flare is nice, but like anything else in this field ithas lots of opportunity to not work.

If you want as much light as possible, get as much light as possible. If output is your main concern you need to decide if the portability of an E- or L- makes up for its relatively lack of "power", versus the somewhat more difficult task of carrying around a larger light.

Surefire is one of a very few number of brands that I recommend by name, but I am a little uneasy about the concept of light as a force tool at least outside of megawatt lasers;) Remember, not too long ago doctrine dictated that light should generally be avoided so as not to become a bullet magnet.
 
I wouldn't rely on any of my lights to deter attackers. Use a baton, knife, gun, oc/pepper spray, or strikes.

The link should be in the LED forum. I'd just get a flashlight that provides useful light and get something with a TID(Tactical Impact Device), and that would be a way to hurt someone.
 
If I get a L4, could I get the E2e lamp for the L4 body? (it looks like the same body as the E2e but I am wondering about the “digital regulator.” Would that screw up the incandescent lamp? I tried to look on the Surefire website but couldn’t find anything) Also, does anyone know of a TID that works on the L4? And finally, why not get a E1 with a LED head and a E2e—I think the combo is the same price as the L4, I guess the main deterrent would be just the hassle of having two lights along with everything else one has in their pockets?
 
The "L4" is the KL4 bezel on an E2e body with the Z57 Click Switch TailCap.

The E2e bezel with MN02 or MN03 lamp can replace the KL4 bezel in a straight swap. I think it will be rather difficult to get just the bezel and lamp though.

The KLx are self-contained bezels with all the "digital regulation" wizard inside.

If you get an E1e with a KL1, then that's a 1W Luxeon.
If you get an E1e with a KL4, then that's a 5W Luxeon.

One dealer offers the E1e+KL4 calling it the TW4 I believe.
The TW4 is brighter than the KL1 but it is not as bright as the L4, and the runtime is much shorter.

Personally, I prefer the form factor, output and runtime of the L4 rather than E1e+KL1 or E1e+KL4.

Al
 
I had a similar dillema when trying to decide on my first surefire. I ended up with the L4.

--------

Pros:

No replacement lamps needed.

Same form factor as E series - get a E1E and a couple new lamps, and POW, you have can make your own E2E, L4, E1E, E2O, and TW4.

Can still use low batteries: It still produces useful light after its main burn time, and it is not harmful to the lamp.

Light is very white, which is nice.

Has a large flood - which is much more useful than a single, tight spot for most things IMHO.


Cons:

Expensive

Runs Hot

Not very good throw.

---------

I got a heck of a deal on mine from a dealer on CPF.

Just buy the light. If you really don't like it, you can always turn around and sell it for a small loss.

Or part it out and make a profit. :)

-- Rob
 
I have both the L4 and an E2E -- my E2E now see a lot less use. If I were in your shoes, I would consider buying an L4 and then see if I could pick up a bezel and lamp assembly for the E2E on CPF (candlepowerforums) or Ebay. The KL4 is the LED bezel on the L4, it will fit on either the E1 or E2 series bodies. Since the KL4 bezel is now being sold separately in some places, I don't think you will have a hard time picking up an E2E bezel and lamp assembly at a good price.

Or, as CPF standard recommendation goes, buy both!
 
How much does a KL4 go for? I am reconsidering this KL4 thingy again...I'm getting the KL1 right now for longer runtimes but I wouldn't mind having a super flood light and carry around an m2 w/ p61 for long throw.
 
OK...Buy one or I'll kill you.:D.:D.

(How's THAT for a sales pitch?).:p
 
I've seen the KL4 sold separately by a couple of internet dealers for not much under $100. A complete L4 I've seen as low as $120 at at least one internet dealer's site and for about $130 at several others.
I'm not familiar with the going prices on CPF's buy and sell forums or Ebay; but, both should be less than the on-line delears.
 
On the secondary market, it seems like the KL4 usually goes for around $80 shipped, the L4 body goes for $25+, and the Z57 clickie is going for in the $35+ range. From a dealer, the Kl4 alone is around $100, the L4 body is around $50, and I haven't seen a dealer selling Z57's.

I'm sure sometimes they go for more or less - that just seems to be the impression I've been getting lately.

I believe that right now, it is a better deal to buy the L4 and get the E2E bezel and lamp than to buy a E2E and get an Kl4.

-- Rob
 
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