Please sign Canadian knife import ban e-petition

SharpCdn said:
There are similarities...and differences. There is still a large population that is rural here, and there are a lot of outdoorsmen/women. I think more people are accustomed to knives as practical tools here than there though.
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Plus, we have snow, less fires, and stronger beer. :thumbsup:
 
SharpCdn said:
There are similarities...and differences. There is still a large population that is rural here, and there are a lot of outdoorsmen/women. I think more people are accustomed to knives as practical tools here than there though.
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California has it's share of outdoorsman and woman too. In fact, our State has more gun owners than any other State. Unfortunately, our coastal areas and large cities make the majority of our politics here..not the inner part of our State. Many are leaving because they don't feel comfortable here anymore..myself included.
 
Just my opinion, but I would think that signatures from Americans are also relevant and can't hurt the petition. After all, they are also subject to our import laws when they travel up here. Right now it is impossible for any traveller to know if his/her pocket knife or multi-tool is considered a prohibited weapon by the CBSA.
 
Shifti said:
Thank you for clarifying, I appreciate that. What offended me a bit was being called uninformed, I was as informed as most people are about this topic and more than alot considering I am new to this hobby. I did forget to thank you for the link, it helped. I now understand the difference you were trying to point out.
One thing I am having a hard time getting around though is These types of knives are called Prohibited weapons, in the criminal code, which is a set of laws. so im just having a hard time understanding what is legal or illegal about them.
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Of course, I'll start by saying that I'm not a lawyer. However, my own understanding of our current knife laws (not border import policy) is that the original intention outlined in the criminal code was to make switchblades, balisong and gravity knives illegal due to how they opened. So, although we have since seen the introduction of knives that are able to be opened one-handed safely, they did not have the characteristics of the types that were outlawed. Now, the argument has been made that the "centrifugal opening" part of the law now also refers to how knives that are partially opened and then swung open the rest of the way are also illegal... The problem is that this includes virtually every folding knife. Including the Buck 110, which I'm sure you'll agree is beyond the original scope of our laws back when they were written.

Edit to add that the mention of the Buck 110 wasn't intended to only advocate for knives of that specific type, and merely to illustrate how unreasonable and ridiculous the current interpretation and the border is.
 
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This interpretation by the CITT is just damn scary. This case needs to be taken to the Federal Court!

Whether the Goods in Issue Open Automatically by Centrifugal Force

The Tribunal closely examined and tested the goods in issue at the file hearing of this matter. This included reviewing their packaging material and instructions, as well as opening and closing the knives repeatedly. When fully closed, the knives have a tendency to stay closed and do not open automatically with a mere flick of the wrist. However, they do open automatically when a flick of the wrist is accompanied with minimal manipulation by the thumb of either the flipper or other non-edged parts of the blade, such as the nail nick, to overcome the initial resistance. In fact, the instructions include directions on opening the blade without using the flipper, requiring only that the user “push gently outwards on the thumbstud”, referring to a part of the blade directly under the thumb when held in the closed position.[27] Once the blade is barely ajar, it easily, swiftly and readily swings into a fully opened and locked position with a simple, “slight flip of the wrist” as the instructions themselves confirm.[28] All of this can be accomplished in one simultaneous, single-handed movement with the wrist, thumb and forefinger.

The Tribunal has ruled in prior cases that a knife may still open automatically by centrifugal force even if it requires some preliminary or simultaneous manipulation of a flipper or part of the blade.[29] In recent cases, it has also ruled that a knife may be a prohibited weapon if the flipper works in combination with a device, such as a torsion bar, to enable the knife to open automatically.[30] As found above, there is no such device (in the form of caged ball bearings) in these knives. However, the Tribunal has never ruled, and subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code does not provide, that a knife only opens automatically by centrifugal force when no manipulation is required of any part of the knife. The swiftness and ease with which the goods in issue open is in no way inferior to that of other knives that do not start in a locked position. The Tribunal does not believe that Parliament would have intended, or that the text of the statute commands, that the former be treated any differently than the latter.

DECISION
The Tribunal therefore finds that the goods in issue are properly classified under tariff item No. 9898.00.00 as prohibited weapons, in accordance with the requirements of paragraph 84(1)(a) of the Criminal Code, as the goods in issue open automatically by centrifugal force.
Accordingly, the appeal is dismissed.
 
The old interpretation was if you touched the blade to open it then the knife was OK (as long as it wasn't a Balisong, a gravity knife{a specific type of mechanism as used in paratrooper knives} or a switchblade) so they didn't have to dive into whatever mechanical weirdness a knife used.

Somewhere recently someone saw that a flipper opened as fast as a switchblade etc. and decided that even if by definition it was not a gravity or centrifugal knife it was just as bad due to the ease of use. So they added an undefined blanket ban that's now choking the system.
 
SharpCdn said:
Just my opinion, but I would think that signatures from Americans are also relevant and can't hurt the petition. After all, they are also subject to our import laws when they travel up here. Right now it is impossible for any traveller to know if his/her pocket knife or multi-tool is considered a prohibited weapon by the CBSA.
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That's a very good point. The clowns on the hill love to promote tourism, so this may hit them in their collective gonads.
 
Signed but the restrictions on tools is silly. I think the cold hurts and kills more people each year up there than any knife like object. I guess they are gonna take that away too, huh?
 
It is nice to see support and energy condemning the CITT/CBSA interpretation of arguably the most ambiguous definition in the Canadian criminal code.

As correctly pointed out these two respective government bodies do not make the law. Unfortunately, their recent ruling on the interpretation of Article 84 has now set the standard for other government bodies and jurisdictions including the courts which are now obligated to consider their assessment moving forward. Do not underestimate the magnitude of adverse impact CITT/CBSA recent actions will have on industry and individuals.

It is has been reported the CBSA has banned these flippers and the like for import as result of the CITT’s recently ruling. If you read the ruling that is a little opportunistic. Retailers can still import all manner of flippers and the like providing they obtain a business firearms license and import them as prohibited weapons. This is an overt and very strategic to move to facilitate the long-term agenda of an unambiguous ban on one-handed opening knives.

Retailers can either accept CBSA ruling and not import 99% of their product offering or capitulate to getting a firearms license thus accepting CITT assessment, cut their own throat (pun intended), and set the stage for the aforementioned agenda which is a full ban on one-handed opening knives.

As many are aware there are nations with such a ban Germany being one. California and New York states are well on their way as well. Like it or not you have respect the fact these initiatives to some degree have a righteous element which is reduce the propensity for violent crime.

The tribunal had the audacity to suggest their interpretation had the same honorable intentions yet did not stake a stab (pun intended) at qualifying blade length like ALL other jurisdictions have that have gone down this road. This would at least suggest a genuine attempt at an impartial an equitable ruling not to mention due diligence but no such luck.

The real crime here is CBSA/CITT attempting to their jobs with such obvious alternative motives at play. Centrifugal force, hand no handle and their refusal to consider more equitable test criteria is all clearly orchestrated noise to ensure the real agenda maintains traction.

In the school yard all it takes to deal with bullies is a good left hook. In business it takes money. Unfortunately the level of investment to properly deal with these yahoos will not be forth coming simply for the fact the ROI will only postpone the inevitable with a new tribunal and CBSA President content to wear the proverbial golden handcuffs into retirement.

I wish I had the energy to cut through the bureaucracy and expose the manipulation, abuse of power and breach of fiduciary duty these bodies reek of but unfortunately my knife was confiscated at the boarder☹
 
I had a knife confiscated a month ago and received the notice in the mail stating that the knife in question would be reviewed for potential siezure and I would be informed of the outcome in 4-6 weeks.

lol and behold, the knife arrived in my mailbox today.

Large folder with thumbscrews and pretty loose action. Non flipper.

I was shocked that I actually received it, but maybe it shows that this is potentially not a blanket confiscation of all knives that can be opened with centrifugal force or one hand and that there may be a glimmer of hope.

I would never dream of trying to import a $500 knife with this uncertainty, but we shall see how this plays out....

P.s. this knife flips open like an automatic with the thumb screws. Very strange this got thru. Package was opened and was sealed with yellow CBSA tape.
 
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Looks like Ontario is under-represented in the petition, percentage-wise. And it looks like we need to get the word out to Quebec somehow!
 
2phas said:
It is nice to see support and energy condemning the CITT/CBSA interpretation of arguably the most ambiguous definition in the Canadian criminal code.

As correctly pointed out these two respective government bodies do not make the law. Unfortunately, their recent ruling on the interpretation of Article 84 has now set the standard for other government bodies and jurisdictions including the courts which are now obligated to consider their assessment moving forward. Do not underestimate the magnitude of adverse impact CITT/CBSA recent actions will have on industry and individuals.

It is has been reported the CBSA has banned these flippers and the like for import as result of the CITT’s recently ruling. If you read the ruling that is a little opportunistic. Retailers can still import all manner of flippers and the like providing they obtain a business firearms license and import them as prohibited weapons. This is an overt and very strategic to move to facilitate the long-term agenda of an unambiguous ban on one-handed opening knives.

Retailers can either accept CBSA ruling and not import 99% of their product offering or capitulate to getting a firearms license thus accepting CITT assessment, cut their own throat (pun intended), and set the stage for the aforementioned agenda which is a full ban on one-handed opening knives.

As many are aware there are nations with such a ban Germany being one. California and New York states are well on their way as well. Like it or not you have respect the fact these initiatives to some degree have a righteous element which is reduce the propensity for violent crime.

The tribunal had the audacity to suggest their interpretation had the same honorable intentions yet did not stake a stab (pun intended) at qualifying blade length like ALL other jurisdictions have that have gone down this road. This would at least suggest a genuine attempt at an impartial an equitable ruling not to mention due diligence but no such luck.

The real crime here is CBSA/CITT attempting to their jobs with such obvious alternative motives at play. Centrifugal force, hand no handle and their refusal to consider more equitable test criteria is all clearly orchestrated noise to ensure the real agenda maintains traction.

In the school yard all it takes to deal with bullies is a good left hook. In business it takes money. Unfortunately the level of investment to properly deal with these yahoos will not be forth coming simply for the fact the ROI will only postpone the inevitable with a new tribunal and CBSA President content to wear the proverbial golden handcuffs into retirement.

I wish I had the energy to cut through the bureaucracy and expose the manipulation, abuse of power and breach of fiduciary duty these bodies reek of but unfortunately my knife was confiscated at the boarder☹
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That is a very interesting post, thank you for contributing. I really that hope you are wrong about possible ulterior motives, I am clinging to the hope that this decision was done out of ignorance rather than ill intent or an agenda.

I do find it interesting that this decision comes about awfully close to a period when we were experiencing the worst crisis along our border in modern history - this announcement would be an excellent deflection from the recent illegal immigration flow that has proven to be unstoppable by CBSA. Pocket knives are low-hanging fruit, easy pickings...so they can still say that they are protecting the border.

I will remove my tinfoil now.lol
 
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SharpieB said:
I had a knife confiscated a month ago and received the notice in the mail stating that the knife in question would be reviewed for potential siezure and I would be informed of the outcome in 4-6 weeks.

lol and behold, the knife arrived in my mailbox today.

Large folder with thumbscrews and pretty loose action. Non flipper.

I was shocked that I actually received it, but maybe it shows that this is potentially not a blanket confiscation of all knives that can be opened with centrifugal force or one hand and that there may be a glimmer of hope.

I would never dream of trying to import a $500 knife with this uncertainty, but we shall see how this plays out....

P.s. this knife flips open like an automatic with the thumb screws. Very strange this got thru. Package was opened and was sealed with yellow CBSA tape.
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Good to hear.
Like you said, prob wouldn't roll the dice on something that cost big bucks tho.
And unless I'm misinterpreting things, you could be singing the opposite tune if that customs agent decided to go the other way with it. The wording seems grey enough that it's up to them.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the declared value and was "knife" on the customs form?
 
Rusty_shackelford said:
Good to hear.
Like you said, prob wouldn't roll the dice on something that cost big bucks tho.
And unless I'm misinterpreting things, you could be singing the opposite tune if that customs agent decided to go the other way with it. The wording seems grey enough that it's up to them.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the declared value and was "knife" on the customs form?
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The declared value was $20 and it was a Sanrenmu from China. Bought specifically to see if it would clear. Contents were labelled “electronic parts” but is was opened and confiscated.

I hate to say it, it is one hell of a good knife for $16USD. :oops:

I wont be buying a high end folder from the US and having it shipped to Canada any time soon though.
 
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